The perfect Passagemaker IV, Equipment

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by apex1, Sep 3, 2010.

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Please choose after reading the threads! multiple choice possible.

  1. I need a second Radar

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. One Radar is enough

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  3. A intergrated bridge system would be nice

    10 vote(s)
    66.7%
  4. Inmarsat is a must on passages (how would I post on bd.net?)

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  5. I am fine with SSB radio at sea and shouting in port.

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  6. A bus system is sensible and desired

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  7. Aircondition in all rooms

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  8. AC in sleeping quarters only

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  9. AC in living quarters only

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  10. Walk in fridge/freeze is a must

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  11. A household fridge is enough, I like my beer lukewarm

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  12. Hydraulic stabilizers are my choice (for Trawler)

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  13. The Trawler does fine with paravanes

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  14. I need a sternthruster

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  15. first forgotten item

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  16. second

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    i forget, no life raft, a real active life boat, rafts are terrible.
     
  2. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 226
    Location: Springfield, Mo.

    Wavewacker Senior Member

    No RIB? No Jetski? Anyone use PACTOR anymore? A Cushcraft R7000, loaded.

    And a sling for my motorcycle, both of them!
     
  3. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,187
    Likes: 201, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    This is your area Richard. The owner/skipper gets the call here !

    My opinion is that A sat phone is better than a SSB and with email and shore support it's invaluable for weather routing. But I'd like both.

    And I'd rather have cold beer so you are not being fair :) But a walk in fridge freezer can be quite reasonable. perhaps with a close by deck hatch for slinging supplies aboard, and off-loading to the quarantine barge, when they decide they want your side of beef surrendered to prevent disease in the beef herds of some coral atoll !

    AC on the bridge is nice, and in the cabins if visitors fly in from winter to meet you in the tropics. Jet lag and heat stress combine miserably.

    Hydraulics for sure everytime, but I've seen quite a few damaged fin stabilizers from coral and rock encounters, enough to make me shy of them on smaller 'mission' vessels . Have you ever looked into active rudder based roll reduction? You can also lower GM with deck tanks in an anchorage and make the roll more comfortable. Just a thought. And of course you are a good enough skipper to anchor properly and not to bend your little ship anyway.

    I like to see things as simple as possible myself on the bridge. Engine controls and readouts, Simple GPS interfaced to a notebook computer with world charts and Nav software controlling the autopilot. And a spare GPS and notebook computer or two. Your bridge can be as simple or as complex as you desire. Plus of course a decent radar screen. Maybe one good radar with simultaneous two range scales, radar is becoming quite a sophisticated . AIS info overlaid is good along with the radar output but you know all this already.

    Information in the master cabin is really useful, compass heading speed, oil pressures, temperatures, collision warning alarms. That lets you sleep with more trust in the lookout on the bridge.

    If you take Daniels sextant get the sight reduction program for the notebook computer, and if that fails use the Sat phone and they can work out your position from your sights !
     
  4. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 897
    Likes: 37, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 442
    Location: usa

    wardd Senior Member

    was a trash compactor mentioned?
     
  5. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    ....yes, Apex said he was using CPP props...simply chuck it overboard and they will sort it out.....

    ....Daniel.....you live in a world gone by my friend, (and so do I incidently)....the KISS princilpe has gone to bed with the whores that invented all the electronics that are now " essential" for modern living....
    ...untill of course the vessel is hit in a serious electrical storm or sun spots deal a blow to planet Earth, then the use of the hand held equipment comes into its own......maybe one day we can teach the non believers how to take a shot.....
     
  6. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Re; CAN bus - for those that wish for the bundled wires neatly loomed and are distrustful of the simplicity (lack of segregation?) of the more modern system, please bear in mind that, just like a single engine versus twins, simpler can mean better. In fact, with the space saved, wiring and time saved, more energy can be put into learning about bus systems and not being distrustful. Everything can be so much more intuitive and not so daunting as getting into a wire pan some others have marked (perhaps differently) over the years. With familiarity comes better cleanliness, maintanance and no shoving wires into too small a pan because there will someday be additions.
    For N2K, one needs the Platinum version to operate breakers (touch screen is cool) and communicate via phone with the systems or have a specialist diagnose from the other hemisphere. Maretron is a good company to work with (I am in the process now for my personal boat). The site will teach much. Yet to look into the systems Richard noted.
    RADAR has historically been the most accurate navigation aid on a boat (GPS can argue now). I wud not go out without two, for sure. Of course no sportboat garbage. I have had 120MPH scanners go out and only one come back with subsiding winds - the next time it is the other that comes back. Good idea to have one with closed array less affected by wind? I can't stand snow packing on an array, either - Does anyone make a heater for these or will we always have to have a deckhand get after it with a brush (open array gets less snowpack)? Of course there will be a computer in the Captain's room with every aspect of the boat at his fingertips right up to removing nasty shittake from the cook's recipe.
    I don't see the need for thrusters of any kind. Boats of this class are well behaved because of their draft and it is assumed that the driver will undestand the physics, YMMV. Engine controls in the wheelhouse please (not engine room!) - That concept dances with CAN bus at the new-fangled ball...
     
  7. Landlubber
    Joined: Jun 2007
    Posts: 2,640
    Likes: 124, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1802
    Location: Brisbane

    Landlubber Senior Member

    CAN BUS systems today should be very reliable, but unfortunately many do not handle AC side of things so well.

    Try looking at the BEP web site regarding CZone, their version http://www.bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu-8/productcategory-190/overview

    I was privy to their earlier versions and they all are as good as can be. The modules can be on board as backups or new installations.

    One of the major benefits of Can Bus is the fact that a switch that is already in place can be replaced with a pad to do multiple functions, simplicity itself.
    I would install separate supply lines to different zones of the vessel, with loop system (port and starboard) to supply heavy current to the output interfaces, that way redundancy as well as simplicity are integral.
     
  8. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    For a boat of this class, central heat and air cond will be required.

    To my mind the best is built by Carrier , where 3 or 4 condensers are built into a central unit .


    The package heats or cools water and anti-freeze mix ,run thru out the boat with a simple water circuit so each cabin or space is Zone Controlled.

    The package is set to operate as many units at a time as needed , and to operate them to equalize the operating time of each.


    Since they are optimized for this app, a different refrigeration /freezer set up also will be required.

    The huge advantages to this setup are , damage is to a water line , not a freon line.

    A failed compressor unit is simply replaced , or repaired in a proper bench, since the hookup is to water its low skill , no refrigeration specialist to R&R..

    Heat from this system can have a COP of 4 to 5 about as good as 2010 can do.

    In cabin temp control is excellent ,a quite small noisemaker will operate the system at night .

    FF
     
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    See my elaboration on bridge design here:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/on...ols/bridge-design-feedback-request-27838.html

    Lifeboat is nice Larry, but not on a 25 m boat! Let alone on a 22m, which we discuss here.



    You are getting a bit a killjoy, not to say a PITA, with your comments! Please leave that.
    We are discussing some serious business here.



    Well, one can say Daniel is a leftover from the century before last, but then I am too. A ship without paper charts and a Sextant (and HO tables), is not a ship.
    We all know (those with ocean passages under their belt), when it is there, it will fail. So, be prepared.



    Nothing to argue John.



    Never planned to have the engine controls in the grease room Mark!



    Choosing a decent AC system does not need to run the "rradaddel" at night.
    As mentioned above, one must not install AC in the engine room! (I have seen that on a US boat)
    The vessel will be a "battery boat", not a "genny boat"
    State of the art energy management is mandatory on a newbuild of that size.

    My comments on the US habits are not meant to insult the citicens, or our members!
    Unfortunately DO they waste energy to a insane extend, that must not be.


    Regards (to all)

    Richard
     
  10. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 3,187
    Likes: 201, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2054
    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member


    It works with a single rudder and there are vessels in which this is implemented it's just that the actuation mechanism is that much larger for the required slew rate and it's often much cheaper with this sort of equipment to have two sets of smaller gear than one large installation. All part of the design spiral and vessel intended use.

    Commercially for a production vessel it's arguably better to go with active stabilizer fins since they are more effective , just less robust. There will be a marketing angle to consider.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thank you Mike!

    I´ll investigate.
     
  12. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Beg to differ. It depends on where you cruise. Lack of Cruise comfort can lead to fatigue or worst. For example there are 95 degree f days in Miami that you can not be anywhere on boat without AC and get any work done. No breeze at all. So I have AC in the engine room, bedroom, kitchen/main area, even in the bow. I can only run one at the time. I have fans in every room and can survive without AC, but it is not pleasant sometimes. On the other side of the coin, doing mechanical work in 35 to 45 degree F is also not fun. Have heaters for this...
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I can understand that some people well used to have AC units even in the loo are more comfortable with them, than the average European.
    When the energy is for free as it is in the US, one must not care. That game does not function on a boat. There every produced kW costs real money.

    When I was on my 9 year trip around the world we have been in every condition one can expect. Except for severe ice and Typhoons.
    The AC was in use on the bridge and in the sleeping quarters when we had temperatures above 27-30°C and the vessel was not moving. The saloon, aft deck, sky lounge, passageways, staircases and the like have been cooled down only to operate the equipment from time to time, I would not install AC there in a new boat anymore.
    The engine rooms (I changed to new vessel after 2 years) were not AC equipped but had a proper layout. Means the air draft was sufficient to keep them reasonably cool.

    The past 6 weeks I lived on board the 57ft Trawler shown in the other thread. We have had between 37 and 41°C every day, cooling down to 27°C most nights. I did not run the AC except for my bedroom when at the docks. (the marina charges 0.80 US$ per kWh!)
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/marketplace/57-ft-passagemaker-trawler-sale-33939.html

    Yes fatigue is a killer, and I point out that fact every other week on every other occasion.
    But a good ventilation is quite often a sufficient solution. I must agree, that most "modern" yachts have absolutely no proper ventilation at all.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    And that's the real killer (for the boat also). I've been some time in the tropics and I'm not a fan of AC either. In fact even in hotel rooms I set the thing of.. The worst thing with colder room temps you never get accustomed the heat outside and so most people using AC don't show up before sunset;)
     
    1 person likes this.

  15. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    This time of year for me is especially tough. I don't mine the heat so much, I could open to front hatch and rear hatch and fans would take care of the rest. But between the constant raining and mosquitoes, it is easier to keep boat closed and run AC. I fumigate once a day for the buggers that sneak in.
     
    1 person likes this.
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