The Materials Realities of 2014

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by F.H.B., Mar 31, 2014.

  1. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,983
    Likes: 214, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Not much reality in this thread.
  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 6,059
    Likes: 421, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Not at $500 a cubic metre for boat quality timber :)
  3. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    Need a second cup of coffee before typing do we? That was $35 per board foot. There are about 424 BF in a cu meter so the OP's price of $500/cu M is so far off that I assumed a calculating error. Maybe he has a source of teak at $1.18/BF but I doubt it.

    Not to mention all the other nice things about ply and epoxy. I love a "real" wood boat also but it would take a very high level of skill and luck to turn out a boat in timber that matches these "nice things" about ply and epoxy. They are just different, so different that it makes no sense at all to have an argument about the superiority of one or the other.
  4. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 10,401
    Likes: 1,036, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Geez, I might have the first signs of brain addle ! :D Whatever, it seems the OP is in fantasyland re the pricing, which makes any comparisons he wants to draw, void.
  5. gunfighter
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 1
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: south carolina

    gunfighter New Member

    In 60's we built a csk designed 41' cat. She was sister design to "Ima Loa" sp? trans pac winner. She was double diagonal ply with 2 layers of glass over. Great design, very fast and light. With modern epoxy she would be a winner. As I remember ply was in 3" strips, Diagional over forms and bulkheads. Glass applied after in and out.
    I am toying with idea of 24-5' V hull ply/foam. Twin VW diesels. Light, fuel efficient.
    At the time of the CSK we built a number of Piver designed tri,s 30-36' plywood glass.
    One went south from Japan to New Zeland..Rest shipped stateside.
  6. F.H.B.
    Joined: Dec 2009
    Posts: 27
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Utah for now

    F.H.B. Junior Member

    Check Alibaba commercial listings in Thailand for teak FOB Thailand. Shipping and customs and Thai govt excising the exports is where the price skyrockets. As I am free to build anywhere and skilled boat building labor is $27 for a 10hr day, I am leaning there.
  7. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
    Posts: 6,059
    Likes: 421, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1749
    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Thats price is for whole logs, min order 22 cubic metres,

    After kiln drying, sawing, you lose over 50% of the timber and add storage and drying costs

    is for Burmese Teak US $2,100 - 3,000 / Cubic Meter for Teak square logs and sawn timber
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014

  8. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 561
    Likes: 25, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 111
    Location: TO

    ThomD Senior Member

    I have a local availability of ply with balanced plys, nice quality, and the right glue for 13.50 a 1/4" sheet. You can easily build multis up to 35 feet with this material, and up to 50 with 2 layers. Obviously there will be some situations where you need to add some core, etc... But it can be the basis of a lot of the pounds in these boats.

    50 dollar epoxy is out there, and when I started building it was 100 dollars at a time when that was about 3 dollars today (late 70s). I would spring for the more expensive stuff for anything using carbon, a beam, a spar, or a board, but there are situations where cheaper epoxy is OK. One thing I learned is that cheap epoxy can outlast expensive stuff in certain apps. I had some that was very resistant to the sun, and some other stuff I used, a 1-1 mix that hardened like cheese, actually did get pretty hard a year later. So it would be hopeless for folding up a hull (west only for me), but it is fine for say glassing the inside against wear and moisture. We have several grade to play with, at different costs.

    There are great paints today that will do a good job for a lot less than 2 pac prices. Tools are virtually free. 2HP harbour freight router that is actually pretty good for boat duty, 49 bucks. 1980 router try 450 in todays dollars. I am sure I paid around 130 at the time and it was a 7/8hp.

    Glass still costs number for number what I paid back then. So it is 1/3rd the price.

    Plus plans are now free in many cases. I paid 200, todays 600 for my KHSD plans, I can buy Kendrick plans which are OK for 100-150. But I have always designed some of my own boats, and the technology for that is also pretty much free today. I bought ducks, and splines, and planimeter, and curves. That is at least 1K today. I made a small dual power cat about 18 years ago, nothing like that was made back then, so there are always reasons to do stuff that can't be bought. Today, solar electric boats are not easy to find.

    Also, when I started out, I worried about what the boat looked like, and how long it will last. Today I know how to make them look OK, and last a lot longer than I will last, so I have a lot of ways of making stuff cheaper and easier because I actuarially only have 25 years, and not all of that will be active. The first boat I made is still great, and is now 35 years old. Ain't going to need that kind of durability.

    This is the golden age. There was never a better time to build a boat. Stop coming up with reasons why you can't do it, or admit you really aren't cut out for it. Nothing wrong with that.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.