the boatbuilding journey

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by tugboat, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    Agree with both of those. I took the decision up front to stay away from bleeding edge systems of any type. KISS is the way to go for sanity. Especially anything involving electronics because you *know* it's going to be obsolete before the boat hits the water if you buy it sooner.

    Living where I do, a lot of stuff I need (want) has to be shipped in. Got to plan ahead (dummy!)....

    PDW
     
  2. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    I hate him already.

    As for tools, let's not go there. I've been accused of building a boat so I can justify having all my tools. That is a total load of crap. I have tools because I like tools, I don't need an excuse, I only need space & money. Buying old tools and rebuilding them is cheap.

    I'd agree with not fitting all the plates before the engine or consider a *big* hatch, soft patch etc (good idea regardless because what goes *in* will eventually have to come *out*). I've got a 900mm x 600mm cabin top hatch whose main reason for existence is to make it easy for me to drop my diesel engine inside.

    You've less steel to deal with than me so maybe abrading the scale off will work out OK. Tom Colvin said he never personally blasted the scale etc off of the inside of his hulls but did make sure he had a lot of layers of paint over the steel; he did get rid of all the loose scale etc though, just didn't worry about the tightly adherent stuff. I sent my plate off to the blasters before starting building. It was expensive and I'd do it again without hesitation. I know for sure there's no scale to lift & flake including under frames & stringers where you can't blast. So do what you have to do, you've a bit more leeway with a fresh water boat.

    Boat value (worth) is a nebulous concept. I tend to value a project by looking at what I could buy the same thing, more or less, floating & in the water ready to sail, then working out the cost of bringing the project boat to the same standard. The project is then worth the difference between those 2 figures. Sometimes this is negative - they should pay you to take it away. Owners rarely see things this way, I might add, but it works for me. My Witch is going to cost more than its resale to any sensible person, I know this up front and don't care. Unless you're making a living from a boat, it's hobby money anyway, no different from pissing it up against a wall. Anything you get back in cash is a bonus, the reason for doing it at all is just personal enjoyment.

    PDW
     
  3. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I've not seen the movie. Piver was lost at sea when he borrowed a trimaran of poor construction to clock up miles to enter a race single handed it may have been the "OSTAR" but I'm not sure.
     
  4. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Engine mounts? How do you plan what engines to use?? :D

    Starting with a blank canvas is incredibly difficult to me because usually I have some kind of base to start with doing systems.... You know: some engines or generator already installed and you work from there as to what to add. Building new, the possibilities are endless, which really trips me up.
     
  5. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    OHHH man thats hitting the nail on the head-i was JUST thinking that today- how too much knowedge can trip a person up..there are so many decisions and each one critical. like what materials to build in -or - engines or how many props , and i could go on ad infinitum on that - I think starting with the designers ideas for propulsions is where i'd look first- but of course if you designed it..then you probably have a good idea of what to use...
    I dont recall what design your boat was or who designed it?...one problem i have is i have a bad back. this doesnt help building in steel- but maybe its the same -wood steel fiberglass whatever...its probably the same thing.-painful if you've got a bad back...
    i think building a boat is like a chess game --you really do have to think ahead in decisions and if you dont your kinda mucked up later--i think this is why the pro's are so revered if they are good boatbuilders-they have been through it all before--but us guys--we just have to live with the big mistakes...
     
  6. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    yes i read that somewhere- he just disappeared and some say he took off to soem remote island and lived out his days there...or so the myth goes...kinda like "sugar candy mountain" or in this case an island!!
     
  7. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I think that's basically it.

    Thankfully, I have more than 20 years at sea ( 8 of them professionally), so I have far fewer questions than most. There are still tons of them though.

    However, I have built two RVs as well. Building the RVs really got me irritated for this boat build because on land, you can have good systems. On a boat?

    Well, I know what I want, but THEY DON'T MAKE IT! VERY FRUSTRATING! :mad:

    I want:

    *Pair of 30HP diesel outboards
    *24V scroll compressor based reverse cycle air conditioning system with 17 SEER min. Air cooled ideally, or just a single seacock feeding the whole thing.
    *Small, 10-14HP marinized diesel DC generator that has its RPMs governed by the applied load
    *LiFePO4 battery bank
    *20" propane stove and oven with 4 burners - like in an apartment - with the ABYC safety shut offs for when there is no flame
    *Regular, front opening refrigerator and small freezer
    *Deep freeze chest freezer
    *Reasonably priced RO watermaker capable of 50GPH

    HOWEVER... they make NONE OF THESE THINGS! So, I am stuck with...

    *Pair of 60HP gasoline outboards, weighing in at nearly 300lbs each
    *God only knows what crappy, old technology air conditioning system
    *Have to build my own DC generator
    *Not sure if I can source the stove
    *Still working on LiFePO4's.
    *Looking for refrigerators and freezers
    *Have to build my own RO watermaker.

    I know what makes a good set of systems... however, they don't make many of the things I want, nor do they make things efficient. It's maddening.
     
  8. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    It's a silly myth, I'm a multihull enthusiast and I can accept that he was lost at sea along with a lot of other sailors over the years. The sea is a hard taskmaster it will search out any failings of design, construction or humanity and exploit them.
     
  9. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    i agree- i doubt he was alive anywhere--some people actually believe it...
    many people just disappear out there without a trace--even on the great lakes--there are some good stories though about phantom tillerman and such...i enjoy those..
     
  10. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    hmm the dc generator-- id be interested in your idea for that--I have the option of using two electric motors for a d.e. system...of course, as of yet there is no real practical replacement for oil. but --i thought of rewinding a truck alternator maybe adding more windings or something like that to run off the engine giving a huge amperage charge and high voltage like 48 volts...
    i can relate to the frustration..mine is patience. i am not a patient person..never have been..but i am also poor..and the ONLY way to build a boat is to do it piecemeal in my case. this forces me to have long periods of "downtime" which is extemely frustrating..i am a relatively fast worker, but its the wait times--the marathon of playing the savings game to buy the next round of materials of tools or whatever..this is what really gives me a brain twitch.

    nothing is perfect...I am not saying your incorrect about the 30 hp outboards--but it seems strange there isnt anyone making them in that size range..diesel outboards are expensive too...but diesels are strong engines and maybe you could use 2 smaller diesels..?? If you ever find a 10-14 hp genset as you stated--make sure you call me to get a piece of that action...
     
  11. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Thats true I still smile when I think of Slocum's story about the "pilot of the Pinta" manning his tiller on Spray it's a great tale.
     
  12. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    Hah. I have to laugh, sorry. I feel your pain.

    Ever checked out the Rutu web site? There's someone else who went through this, ended up building most of his systems stuff himself. Nice job (up to when he stopped updating the site anyway) but look at the time it all took.

    I've decided to skip a lot of the stuff you've listed but I'm building a boat for me not for carrying paying guests so the requirements are different and subject to change without notice.

    I've built 3 houses and spent over 15 years working on oceanographic research vessels of various types and spending other peoples' money like water to keep complex systems running/updated. Hence my choice of simple tech for my own boat. Steel shoal draft hull, low spread-out rig, good load carrying capacity, slow speed as a tradeoff, easy to maintain, proven to work by other people before me. Pretty much the exact opposite of a catamaran build in fact :)

    PDW
     
  13. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    ahh such a good book...lesson: dont eat week old cheese!!:p


    there was a similar one about a wreck here on lake Huron in the mid 1800's it was late fall, early winter--back in those days ice still formed on the lakes in december...Everyone on the lifeboat had died of exposure. all but the one who accounted the story: apparently a guy appeared in the lifeboat just when the sole survivor thought he was going to die. the apparition kept waking him up so he didnt succumb to hypothermia. - he wasnt a crewman and everyone else was dead- the apparition talked to him--told him everything would be ok,,,had conversations with him--the phantom guided the boat through some tricky spots too--very similar to slocums ordeal- he took the tiller and led the man to safety...then disappeared.
    the man was the sole survivor.
    another good one that i learned of recently was the Edmund fitzgerald was officially sighted ten years after she sank...the lakes are ripe for these kinds of stories because the nature of the gloomy lakes in the fall make them chilling dark places...ive worked on them - and they get very cold and eerie...
     
  14. tugboat

    tugboat Previous Member

    my new props...

    hope you can see them--pair of michigan wheels- 22 x 19 paid only 500.00 for the pair totally reconditioned.-the theory that since my boat is flat bottomed with a rocker- that two smaller props fits betetr under her, and equals one big one--it turns out that the two smaller ones with smaller shaft dia. is less expensive in aquamet 19 stainless (70 000 yield) than on larger shaft of 2.5 inch dia (aquamet 19)which is how big it would need to be for a single screw of 30-32 in. diameter..this falls under the successes category here...im happy with these...four blades work better for slow turing high torque blade loaded applications...otherwise the 3 blades are more efficient--was just reading gerrs book..great stuff in that book!...id like to try carbon fiber or fiberglass kort nozzles...they cant be that hard can they to fabricate? maybe i shouldnt ask...
     

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  15. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Very jealous of your build. :)

    That is exactly what I would have done if not for the needs of paying passengers. Just hang solar panels to keep up with refer and jug my water. Much, much more simple and satisfying. I'd still go catamaran though, as a personal preference.

     
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