The battery thread...some facts please

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Mick@itc, Feb 24, 2012.

  1. Mick@itc
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: Melbourne

    Mick@itc Junior Member

    Hi

    It seems that there are many reasons given why hybrid cruising sail boats are not yet a mainstream item. One of the reasons that come up time and time again is BATTERIES. Too heavy and /or Too costly. Lets get some facts together...

    Anyone like to start...?

    Battery technologies suitable for hybrid propulsion on sail boats?
    Battery bank sizes for some of the proposed and actual systems, care to share your info? please.
    Sizing when taking propulsion and other "hotel" loadings into account, see CatBuilder hybrid thread.

    Any info that we can capture on batteries will help as it seems to be a major hybrid stumbling block
     
  2. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    OK,here it is again....


    Lifeline:
    http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinesizing.php

    Enter in 48 Volts and say 300 amps to get you say 15 kW. At 5 hours reserve,so enough to get you ~40 miles in a decent sailboat,you will need 56 of these:
    http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marineflyer.php?id=8

    They're 156 pounds each and you'll need 56 of them...where will they fit in your 35' sailboat?
    Thats 8700 pounds.

    Diesel to get you that same distance will weigh ~40 pounds.

    Want Lithium Polymer?
    24 Volt and 10 amp/hr cell is $500.
    To get 48volts and 300 amps for 5 hours you'd be looking at $150,000.

    If you want to try the "hybrid" route,spending 4 times as much on equipment and getting ~75% the efficiency...go right ahead.


    The only way any of this is useable is if you have a small boat on a pond or lake,or only need it to go a few kms. Other than that,it is a huge waste of time and money.
     
  3. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Mickattic,

    Nice try.

    You're either brave or stupid, or both.

    Don't be offended, I'm stupider.

    Try endlesssphere.???

    You'll find a receptive bunch there all over talking batteries with ya.

    Good luck man.

    Thanks for dropping in.

    -Tom
     
  4. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    Another problem just made the news about the costly deep cycle batteries used on the Chevy Volt. It seems if it is allowed to sit too long with out usage there is permanant damage done to the battery structure and it has to be replaced.

    If the Volt is allowed to sit in one place too long it has to be flat bed truck towed back to the proper repair facilities and the $40,000 batteries need to be replaced.

    No thanks, there is no viable technology for battery powered vehicles as far as I am concerned. Do not fall for all the wishful "green" dreams of viable electric vehicles. There is no way that replacing those costly and toxic battery packs that often is good for the environment or your pocket book.
     
  5. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I just wanted to mention that batteries were not part of the weight problems I ran into when trying to work out a diesel/electric system

    The main problem with weight I ran into was this:

    Add up the following...

    *30KW generator
    *Heavy Duty Wiring
    *Pair of 15KW electric motors

    or...

    *Pair of Yanmar 30HP engines

    or....

    *Pair of outboards and a generator

    The diesel/electric system comes out to be the heaviest, unfortunately. That doesn't even take into account some solar powered boat pipe dream.
     
  6. Tim B
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    Electric makes a lot of sense when you want to operate with very little noise. It also makes sense if you can run the motor at peak efficiency, while operating at relatively low boat speeds. What doesn't make sense is trying to use electric power for long periods at high speeds on batteries. Unfortunately, you can't guarantee that these conditions won't occur at sea.

    Diesel-electric also has benefits, usually when you want to put the engine away from passengers for acoustic reasons, or for weight reasons, but the location of the prop/propshaft arrangement is fixed, or you want to use azipods, where a water-cooled motor makes a lot of sense. Particularly on cruise ships you can find that the hotel load is so big that running electric propulsion is no big deal.

    Batteries are, at the moment, still too big and too heavy to provide a good electricity storage medium for small boats. I'm sure it will come though.

    Tim B.
     
  7. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Oh yes,I forgot: those Lifeline GPL-8DL Batteries are $650 each, so you're looking at $37,000.
     
  8. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    Can you provide a reference for this claim? Is it something you heard on talk radio?
     
  9. Milehog
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: NW

    Milehog Clever Quip

    Dunno about the Volt but the Tesla's battery will turn into a $40,000 'brick' if allowed to completely discharge. The drivetrain will lock up and require a flat bed tow truck to take it to the dealer.
     
  10. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    I found an old Volkwagon Beetle once that had sat for 45 years. When I turned the key, it started on the third rotation!

    You gotta love internal combustion engines 'eh!

    -Tom
     
  11. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    Ditto to all of the above. I have a neighbor in the marina with 45 Morgan that just threw his diesel overboard and is trying to replace with system from an old forklift. He says forklift runs for days on a single charge. I tried to explain the difference but to no avail.
     
  12. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    Solar Planet ..somewhere off Somalia ...around the world at 4 kts....very green ....rubbish..... polution to make those solar cells and the biggest lithium battery pack in the world must be sky high....+ the crew keep flying home ...more polution and the engineers flying in to mend it ..more polution.....Somali pirates ..oh we will see ...
     
  13. Mick@itc
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Mick@itc Junior Member

    all good info

    I guess I am an anti-troll. All the info here is good, I'm not going to ***** at anyone, in fact I say thanks for the info. Having a thread with battery facts is good don't you think.

    Mick
     
  14. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try


  15. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Don't know about all the intricacies of storage batteries and electric boats but for many years on big yachts I have used ABSOLYTE storage batteries. They pack a punch and are easy to configure..stack. You might investigate.

    http://www.p-s-s.com/dynasty/GNB-Absoltye-IIP.pdf
     
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