the 1 hour sketch

Discussion in 'Option One' started by 8knots, Mar 21, 2002.

  1. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 266
    Likes: 12, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 352
    Location: Wasilla Alaska

    8knots A little on the slow side

    If a power cruiser should win in polarity’s poll then here is the 1 hour sketch. Sorry it is so crude but I haven’t got it all figured out yet. This is the first time I have had a chance to get the pencil going! It kind of looks like a power scow now but with refinement maybe it could work. Here is your sail Steve.... Help me out, would a lug sail work? We only want to go down-wind right?
    8Kts:D
     
  2. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,389
    Likes: 44, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 699
    Location: Smithtown, New York, USA

    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Oooooo....
    "fishy," but I like it.

    I'm a little concerned about line of site over the bow, esp. if we drive her into semi-displacement speeds and the bow lifts, but otherwise I dig it, including the aft pilothouse.

    I know this contradicts what I said before, but now I'm thinking the galley should be in the standing headroom part of the boat - accessible from, but not too close to, the helm. Do we have a place for that?

    What do other people think?
     
  3. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    I'm definitely impressed.

    This design is more, I'll use the word 'salty', than I would have come up with, but I like it. It has a lot of personality and creates a nice experience and environment. It actually reminds me of a 70' 'tug' that I saw and loved all through my childhood which had the same general proportions (well, very general). It had the same type of confidence and character that this design has - it's nice. And I really like your drawing/design style.
     
  4. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,389
    Likes: 44, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 699
    Location: Smithtown, New York, USA

    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    You've got me staring at it, 8, it's nice!
    But when I get to staring I come up with detail suggestions.

    I think we could work a little more freeboard in toward the stern without hurting the aesthetic, and since the pilothouse needs to be raised a little to improve the line of sight this would help hide the additional height. I'm thinking just take the existing sheerline and rotate it slightly about the bow end. Paint a bootstripe a bit above the waterline and perhaps give her a cove stripe and she'll still look low enough.

    Where you've drawn a seat at the side of the cockpit I don't think you have enough height for both a seat and a seat back. I'd just make the deck wide enough to sit on.

    I don't know about swinging around the pilot house all the time to enter it from the back. I think it needs a side door, and I'm beginning to wonder if offsetting the whole pilothouse off center would hurt aesthetically. I'm inclined to think it'd be O.K., and it'd give you a wider side deck on the side of the door. Now what do you call those doors that hinge in the middle?

    In plan view I think you could carry a little more beam at the deck forward of midships. She could still have a fine bow at the waterline.

    Those are my suggestions. What's the next step in the process, all? (note: Tad's website has an article on powerboat design process - thanks, Tad).
     
  5. Polarity
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 480
    Likes: 7, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 148
    Location: UK

    Polarity Senior Member

    Sweet looking boat!

    ----
    Now what do you call those doors that hinge in the middle?

    ------
    Bi-fold doors - I'm a big fan of those..

    Nice looking design - definately "salty" and perfect for your part of the world 8knots - I love it up there!

    I can just see her with the sun glinting off the varnish work, drifting along the ridge, casting for salmon from the side decks...

    Off course if she only is to go down wind and you want ease of handling how about a junk rig? easy to sail, reef, gybe etc. - I sailed one once on a 32ft sailboat - I was bored! compared with my 32ft yawl there was nothing to do! - however for this application.... She might look a little strange though.

    ----------

    3 days to go, I'm working on the next question...


    Cheers

    Paul
     
  6. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 266
    Likes: 12, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 352
    Location: Wasilla Alaska

    8knots A little on the slow side

    I need to get my ducks done!!!!

    OK
    After 2 days think tank time. I like her. Sitting in the center cockpit on a rare sunny day would be a real treat. The lines need serious work, notice the almost strait sheer line. All I had was a stiff old mahogany stick. I have set up my drafting table AGAIN! I need some ducks and a spline bad. My duck project is slowed by life’s commitments. Anyway yes we need more freeboard aft. What scares me about this design is the wheelhouse looking like a cracker box glued to her deck. With her narrow beam I worry about getting tossed around in the high-center wheelhouse. Could we rig flopper-stoppers? Yes I like the idea of just widening the wash deck. I had envisioned a door on the port side of the wheelhouse But facing more foreword than a side door. With a little door in the back just to grab a stern line on the micro-aft deck I see that as the place for deck fills too. With regard to the galley I intend to cram it into the wheelhouse somewhere. “One must never venture far from coffee” After the poll I will lay down some new lines applying all the suggestions we can gather then I will re-submit her to the participants. We may decide to go another direction by suggestion of another waterlogged mind out there! Keep the idea’s flowing. I hope we can pull this off. I would also recommend that we name the vessel “whatever style she is” POLARITY after Paul who inspired the project.
    I am off to read some of Skene’s book! 8Kts

    PS. Where am i going to find a REAL complete set of ship's curves? Other than YDS, I do not mind paying but are there options?
     
  7. Stephen Ditmore
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,389
    Likes: 44, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 699
    Location: Smithtown, New York, USA

    Stephen Ditmore Senior Member

    Now I'm thinking a sliding door would be stronger than a bi-fold. Pros? Cons? The wheelhouse should probably stay on center, but perhaps if we narrowed it up a smidge we could have wider side decks.

    Is there a companionway into the forward trunk cabin? Where is it relative to the mast? What if we put both of those slightly off center so they don't interfere with each other?

    My instinct is the mast diam. needs to be approximately doubled.

    I got my spline weights from the waterlines catalogue at the beginning of the 90s. I don't know if they're still around.

    Paul, 8, Jeff and Deluthboats too, you're really a pleasure to work with.... this is fun! I hope some other people jump in, too.

    :) :) :)
     
  8. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
    Posts: 1,368
    Likes: 71, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 923
    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    I also prefer the idea of a sliding door to a bi-fold door - easier to operate and it somehow seems stronger - I suppose when I think of bi-folds I always think of closet doors. I wonder if the hardware can be subtle enough and not too modern-industrial looking and still provide a strong sliding door? Probably not a problem. Or maybe even a pocket door.

    Although I think I could 'learn' to accept the cabin off center on this boat, in my heart and my bones it would always feel better to have it on center.

    I'm really glad we have such nice and talented folks here - it's a real pleasure seeing what new posts have been added each day. So I just wanted to also say thank you to everyone who takes the time to visit and post here. And of course, if you're reading this, please join in the discussion - everyone's comments are always appreciated :)
     
  9. Polarity
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 480
    Likes: 7, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 148
    Location: UK

    Polarity Senior Member

    aw shucks... 8,

    my little yawl "Polarity" would be delighted to have such a good looking brother.:p

    Almost 10% of the members have voted so please come on in and post - new members and guests are always welcomed here.

    Cheers

    Paul

    PS if you put a junk rig on her, it would be an unstayed mast - no shrouds to get in the way when you are casting!
     
  10. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 2,307
    Likes: 191, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2281
    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    8knots;


    She's a dandy, reminds me of a boat done a number of years ago in Port Townsend. Builder/Designer Tim Nolan? I believe she was smaller though, perhaps less than 20' LOA. There's a photo in Dan Spurr's book Yacht Style, pg. 198. She has the wheelhouse door in the forward end on center. And, believe it or not, the wheel, actually two wheels, one inside and one out, are on the door! How did he do that?

    So on to the one hour sketch. A 27' Halibut Schooner is a great idea. I think she is way too large to trail behind my car, but she could be put on a trailer.

    Of course your sketch needs some tweaking, so bear with me. :) Looking at the plan she needs a fuller deck line forward, more balance in the ends. Otherwise not only will the topsides look slab sided, but she will heel nose down under sail.

    Which brings us to the rig, a dipping lug on an unstayed mast would be entirely in keeping with her style. It's a bunch simpler than a Chinese Junk. For this the mast would need to move forward. A gaff cat-yawl on unstayed spars could also work well.

    Now the profile; I would say the sheer needs more curvature forward and to be perked up aft. Also lots of crown across the top of the transom. Long lines look better than short ones so how about running the forward cabin side all the way back into the wheelhouse? So the forward trunk molding runs aft and into the lower molding on the wheelhouse. This would create a cockpit coaming between the cabins and tie the houses together. I would also change the rake in the wheelhouse top to closely echo the sheer, not exactly mimic, but just echo. For that matter the whole molding line from the forward end of the trunk cabin needs to faintly echo the sheer. Give it some pizzazz up forward!

    Beyond that I would check the size of the wheelhouse windows, find some way to relate the two chunks of bulwark together, and think about lateral plane, sheeting, and control under sail.

    I hate bi-fold doors but have been forced into using them on occasion. A two piece, double door on centerline might be better. It would have to open inward but that could be acceptable in a coastal cruiser.

    Please don't take all this as criticism, there're just my thoughts.

    All the best, Tad
     
  11. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 266
    Likes: 12, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 352
    Location: Wasilla Alaska

    8knots A little on the slow side

    Many thanks!

    Tad
    Thanks for the info, I wish I had waited a day or so to post her When I said she was crude. I meant crude! I like the idea of carrying the lines of the forward cabin aft to meet the wheelhouse this will help to hide the added height (as Steve suggested) Just so everybody knows those are two part doors the scan just does not show the doodle very well. I have louvered bi-fold doors on my closets too Jeff. Since it is the weekend I will have some time to work her over again! Stay tuned…….8Kts
     

  12. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
    Posts: 266
    Likes: 12, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 352
    Location: Wasilla Alaska

    8knots A little on the slow side

    4 hours, 1 pot of coffee later.......

    What to do about that barn door transome? Getting better though.
     
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.