Test results or PAR are you still there?

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by jpazzz, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. jpazzz
    Joined: Nov 2012
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    jpazzz New Member

    Hello Everybody,

    A year or so ago there was a thread on this site entitled "Ninigret Flare." Early in the thread, an active and obviously knowledgeable member called PAR made mention of "early 60s planning hull model test were published... (and) most...upgraded these hull shapes (1950s warped planes) after the form tests were published." I hope that PAR will read this, or, if not, someone else will know what tests PAR was referring to and be able to tell me which results he was referring to and where I might find them. I'd really appreciate any help that I can get here.

    Best regards,
    John P
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Welcome back John.

    I don't think the "test results" of the 63 series will be of much usefulness to you. It's pretty "thick" stuff and not especially helpful unless you have a good grasp on the physics and dynamics involved.

    Do you have some specific concerns or questions or are you just interested in a bunch of resistance charts to look at? If so, this is what you're looking for:

    "Resistance tests of a systematic series of planing hull forms", SNAME Trans. 1963, 71, 491-579. 13, Clements, J. C., Blount, D. L.

    There are countless other "papers" and books on the subject, so refining the search might be helpful.
     
  3. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    I think this information was also featured in Professional Boatbuilder less than a year ago.
     
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yep, I believe you're right Tom. There are a number of sources for this type of information. The question is what information does he really need. Savitsky and Fridsma will be tough reads for someone interested in a primmer.
     
  5. jpazzz
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    jpazzz New Member

    Thanks

    Thank you PAR. I appreciate your having taken the time to respond. The Clements/Blount results came out when I was just beginning grad school.
    I was curious as to which reports you were referring. I'm old and retired now, and losing brain cells by the minute, and probably wouldn't understand the thing now! At the time, it was interesting.

    Some long time ago, I wrote the text on Hyrodynamics for YDI. Then a bit more than ten years ago, the then president of Westlawn asked me to write a text on Resistance for them. I got it done and saw a final proof copy, but just then the officers of Westlawn were all changed and I don't know whether Westlawn ever issued it. If I remember correctly, I believe Savistski was contracted at the same time to write a new text on Power Yacht Design, but I don't know if he ever got it done.

    For what it's worth when I did the Westlawn text, I used the Lemont/Pope results as examples of how to use reports. The L/P reports were David Taylor Basin reports rather than SNAME. But I think I included several Clement/Blount reports in the bibliography.

    Actually, I should have said about all of the above:"if memory serves..." because my memory doesn't always do so!

    And by the way, I stumbled onto the "Ninagret Flare" thread when surfing trying to find out what the built weight of a Bolger Diablo Grande might be.

    Cheers,
    John
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    And I thought you were just fishing for the "Cliff's Notes" version of yacht design . . . :)

    I'd like to see your paper if it's still available.
     
  7. jpazzz
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    jpazzz New Member

    I'll see what I can do

    Hello PAR,

    I'll see if I can find a copy of it. The problem is that my house is the worst mess you will ever see, with books and manuscripts lying about everywhere jubled with trap guns and fly rods.

    As you may imagine given the audience, it was an Introduction to Resistance, so you would probably find it basic. I was told at the time I did the Westlawn text the reason they wanted me to write the text was because they found my earlier YDI text to be the best i.e., most readable and lucid, they had ever seen. I was quite proud of both of them. but it was certainly not the sort of thing a graduate level NA student would find challenging...but perhaps that's good. Although I don't think him the god that some others do, NGH did a very good job with only the most basic knowledge of formal fluid dynamics.

    If I remember the structure of the text was an introduction to the basic concepts including Froude numbers, scaling, etc., followed by notes on the design of sailing yachts (which I always knew a lot more about than power yachts) with a lot of stuff on hull forms and comparing light, medium, and heavy displacement, design of fins and rudders, etc. then notes on the design of power boats. it was in that latter section that I went into the use of data like the Lemont/Pope reports and curves.

    Anyway, thank you again for giving me the source of your data. I'm still always on the lookout to see what I've missed.

    Cheers,
    John
     

  8. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    John,

    I am also in the brain cell reduction phase, so I can commiserate with you. I would also be interested in your paper as it sound like my remaining grey matter might gain something the eludes me in reading the more involved material. I find basic material more to my liking anyway.

    Tom
     
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