Terje Lade's "Wind Ship"

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by 1J1, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. 1J1
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    1J1 Junior Member

  2. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    [​IMG]

    so, how does he adjust to winds coming from different directions? Does he sail a longer route to take advantage of favorable wind? If so he will lose money on it, or rather, be at a disadvantage cost wise compared to conventional shipping. Also, that hull shape means he will need much more structure (more construction costs) to deliver the same amount of cargo, also meaning he will be at a competitive disadvantage.

    Getting a costly cargo ship to port, unloaded, and reloaded, and than to another port, as fast as practical, is how shipping costs go down. what he proposes will drive costs up. That means he is wasting resources.

    Almost always it more cost effective to burn some fuel to deliver cargo rather than depend on nature to help you do it.
     
  3. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Heck, just put canvas covers down the side of any big container ship, and you have the concept.
     

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  4. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

  5. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    iron men in iron ships ironing
     
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  6. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    For reefing, they chain saw the hull in lengthwise
    The life boats are rocket propelled from the main deck
    In case of a man overboard, they just send a fat check to his family
    This is the new setting for the remake of "Vertigo"
    The pilot need three day to get on board. Sandwiches, tent, wood stove for cold night and drinks are provided during the climbing.
    Peeing overboard is prohibited. Pooping is definitively a no-no. the speed of the thing can kill a dolfin.
    The people who bought waterfront property will complain about the view when the thing is close to land.
    Best for target practice. From 22 to missile.
     
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  7. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Dskira: LOL! :D

    But, apart the aesthetics and some seamanship-related practical aspects, the concept is technically interesting and might have some merit, at least because it arises some curiosity. It uses the same principle which allows big birds to soar by using thermal currents, or motorsailers to save fuel by running on both engine and sails.

    Wind ship.gif

    The apparent wind speed, given by the combination of the boat speed and the true wind speed, creates a propulsive component in the direction of boat movement. What is missing in the picture is the underwater part, which will determine how the system behaves and how well it works. as said, it behaves essentially as a motorsailer motoring under sails, with a wind coming from athwartships the eventual gain will depend on how efficient is the underwater keel, which has to counter the side-slip. In any case, the claim about 60% fuel savings tells me that perhaps they have been a little too elastic with their calculations...

    I also have to notice the following:
    - the above-water hull shape is aerodynamically not the best one for this use. The best form would be a rigid wing sail, like the one used by the AC72 cats, which can be made with high aspect ratio. The shape visible in the renderings of the concept is a heavy compromise between aerodynamics and the practical sea-going requirements for a ship hull.
    - this is essentially a motorsailer with an extremely low aspect-ratio sail. Hence, an inefficient sail. So, why not opting simply for a motorsailer, which has the advantage of being able to rotate and trim the sail for the most efficient use of the apparent wind?
    - considering the height of the structure and the fact that it is essentially a non-trimable rigid sail, with no possibility of reefing when the windspeed picks up, I also hope the hull is watertight in the horizontal position... :p
    - for the same reasons, I think a catamaran configuration would be more suitable for this application - also because the ship will have a considerable side-slip, unless they opt for a keel with a considerable amount of ballast.
     
  8. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Crystal clear Norwegian terminology !

    Translated "Therefore, it is estimated that the ship can use only one-third of the energy compared to a "normal" ships

    Wind ship has been tested in a wind tunnel at Aero Mechanical Systems Group at Cranfield University in England.

    The test showed that Wind Ship receive a positive traction in the ship's longitudinal direction, and the ship in the stiff breeze and with optimal courses can make up to 14 knots with no other than the wind for propulsion. - And it is fast for a sailing boat, says Charging.

    Wind ship is intended to be used as a car and passenger ferry, as cruise ships, and the carriage of goods by'll be up soon, as the transport of fresh salmon to continent.
    "
     
  9. alan craig
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    alan craig Junior Member

    It's bo11ocks. It has to be symmetrical to work equally on either tack, so it can't produce any lift forward of perpendicular to the centreline. Like a rigid wingsail exactly along the centreline of a sailboat. But it might have less aerodynamic drag than a container ship of the same size, though less capacity.
     
  10. Leo Lazauskas
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    Leo Lazauskas Senior Member

    Do you think that there is more steel in the containers than there is in the
    entire structure of the ship you showed?
    IMO using all that container steel to supplement the structure is a more
    interesting avenue of research than that silly Wind Ship idea.
     
  11. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    It uses the same principle motorsailers use. The secret is in the relative angles between the boat speed vector and the apparent wind speed, which allows it to produce thrust along the line of the boat speed. Check the picture in my previous post. Of course, it requires an underwater keel in order to counteract the side force, just like a motorsailer.
    IMO, the real question is: is it worth the effort? I see a traditional motorsailer configuration as a more efficient and versatile generator of aerodynamic lift.
    Cheers
     
  12. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    The picture on your previous post shows a negative vector, and its nothing like the principle the boat is using.

    Note the full curve on the bow, and also the overhang of the decks to form a 'fence' for the flow.

    Its a vertical aerofoil.
     

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  13. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Ray
    Some fairly basic naval architecture seems to have been omitted in that.

    The very supposed conditions that would provide a benefit make it an absurdity as a practical ferry. The windage would be crippling, even dangerous and the lateral immersed area required would exceed most all draft requirements for sensible ferry docking.

    Imagine trying to maneuver that in any significant wind without a fleet of tugs.

    I wonder if they started with a weights study ( thinking of GZ stability and wind heeling moment combined ) or just skipped that.
     
  14. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    :):):):)
     

  15. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member


    Perhaps you could have a special streamlined container that could be placed on the perimeter.

    Even having curved edge should benefit performance. The first Kombi Van go a 25% increase in speed just by rounding the corners of the body, instead of square.
     

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