Tenders stored on foredeck

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by sabahcat, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Are we going to remain on "tender design", are the aspects discussed pertinent to "tenders stowed..."? If so, I pose a question: On a tender like the ones pictured, how many black bear, small deer, injured or hypothermic passengers can you stow on one of the pictured tenders? Tendering where I need a tender with a cute one with the bow rail would be destroyed by the first four-wheeler one tried to shuttle, kedging an anchor, or weather and rocks almost immediately. In other words, we all have our specific needs in a tender and I agree with the somebody who has tried to point this out on several occasions.
    To stowage, if that be where this thread returns, I have very little experience with ridged bottom inflatables so correct me if I'm wrong, but why not aluminum so you can at least bang it around a bit? Of the four inflatables I own, three are of the soft bottom variety which, granted, are not very yachty, but stow incredibly well and are more useful in surf conditions. You can remove the engine, then physically drag the thing aboard, if need be. With the chambers not inflated to "hard" level, they seem to hold the water - almost lay beneath the wind, if you will, and offer a superior shitty-water capability (17 ft Achilles soft bottoms with the thickest material available are what we used when I was skiffing for USFW). When the tendering is done for the day, you can simply tow it. When the tendering is done for a day of running, you can drag onto the back deck. When the tendering is done for a long passage, you can break it down to almost nothing and stow it. Nothing needed but cotton sash cord or motorcycle tie-downs to secure wherever you want to secure it. This fascination with RIBs dumbfounds me and takes the best aspects of an inflatable and compromises them. If acquiring a skiff for tendering, why an inflatable at all if it is going to be heavy, not as surf-able (can't be manhandled or unbeached easily) and expensive. Why ridgid bottom - so it can perform well in one scenario, that of cutting head-on into chop? Is that one aspect worth everything else about them that's a pain in the butt (that and that they store in a cradle well)? Inflatables, in general, are silly when used as most people use them. A real skiff, be it plywood, aluminum, or whatever, is lighter and more voluminous. If not diving (somebody pointed out to me that diving is nice off of inflatables), why not just install fenders on a conventional skiff? If it is going to be a yachty thing but still weigh a ton, why not a Whaler or such? A dressed up, clean Whaler looks good on a yacht and is far more comodious than any similar sized inflatable.
    Probably a little big for your tenders, but if anyone is interested, I have one that was good enough for Seals (it will not be cheap and comes with two fresh 3126s and the large silly-drives which are being worked on). The jets are, as you can see, problematic.
    001.jpg

    In short, IMO, the inflatable that makes sense is the one that you can bang around and use, then sell when it gets ragged, manhandle and store easily. Then, the question of foredeck storage seems to beg the question. Water ships into an inflatable and what, compromises the mothership's stability? - Then your skiff is too big. Just cut a bigger drain hole and install bigger plugs if that is that big of a concern. I love the idea of building a new plywood skiff at every area destination - then selling or giving away. Skiffs are, in general, a PITA for the size and type of vessels you guys have. I would get a minimum inflatable soft-bottom (12-14') and build or buy a larger skiff if you are staying in a locale for a month. If you are not a world traveler, as I'm not, I'd get a bigger skiff and deck store it or drag it. If you have a use for an inflatable - SCUBA or whatever, by all means, get a larger inflatable. Don't get a 15 foot hard-bottom because you think it will be a better boat than a conventional skiff in any other way.
    Nothing is classier than a perfect wooden boat. It can be feather lite, if that is in mind, and leave the engine to somebody that needs it. Here's a pretty one I found in 10 seconds of online search - A Jersey skiff, I think.
    skiff11.jpg

    Of course, with the larger capacity of an open boat that isn't half tubes of air, filling with water while on deck is a bigger concern. I would consider building it light enough to be manhandled by available crew and stowing inverted.
    I'm trying to give perspective from ONE PERSON that has spent much time around skiffs. I don't want to start anything with anybody, and don't wish to offend.
     
  2. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Ribs are lightweight , Square shaped and soft sided. Good combo for a tender.

    I HATE RIBS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...they pound terribly when the buoyancy of those tubes hits the wave , they are always wet, the UV deteriorates the tubes fast, they always have an air leak, when the motor breaks down you cant row a rib...you must sorta PRY THEM thru the water with sticks shaped like oars back to port and RIBS cost way to much. Be my guest to custom build a rigid skiff. It would be a great tender.

    I passed on my experience with the South African who carried a small bagged up inflatable for offshore passages then constructed a new very simply plywood skiff for each cruising area. Four or five sheets of cheap ply , a gallon of resin , some biax tape and a weekend with a skill saw. Possibly the best storage solution for a tender ever.

    I sure that you could also take a skill saw to a nice skiff, chop it in half, bulkhead it,and bolt it back together. Bow half of the skiff for all puropse use, deck stored and used on the cabin house as a spray dogger ,. Handy for fast launch via the mainsail boom .....,going to get a jug of milk ... then bolt on the skiffs aft section, hang an outboard and go cruising. Ive seen it done in the days before Ribs.

    Ive also seen tenders built to the precise shape of the cocpit. You sail with the tender in the cockpit...you litteraly stand in it while sailing...then launch your "cockpit" and go get bread.
     
  3. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Those roto molded tenders are popular. Industructable...like granite. The wheels are an "add on" If you were to custom design a tender '" cat" you could easily come up with a more elegant...always underwater ...roller solution
     
  4. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    There is nothing quite so displeasurable as rowing a boat not made for rowing!
    "...sorta PRY THEM thru the water with sticks shaped like oars back to port." - That's funny!
     
  5. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I know of a suicide help-line that had to get involved because of a wheeled panga and the frustrations insuing. In short, the way I understood the story, the wheels barely worked and were always in the way - especially while handling the skiff in surf. There was a bloodied scapula, swallowed seawater, sharks, and a divorce by the time that trip went down!
     
  6. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yah...wheels never work on the beach... useless in soft sand or rocks....they are most useful on launching ramps. You will always be hauling a tender ashore to clean its bottom of grass and stuff. Small roller wheel aft would be great on a ramp. Im to old to physically lift a tender ...In the old days I was HERC...able to lift several tenders simultaneously... even small twin screw fishing trawlers.... but not any more. .

    Proper Pangas have a rounded stern section for easier beach handling
     
  7. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Small world - I used to call my older brother Herc when we were kids. I thought it was unique.
     
  8. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  9. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Its a toy. In a normal 3.2 meter rib, low power, carefully trimed I have difficulty working to windward in 20 knot breeze. Trim forward and you are going under the waves, trim aft and your worry the wind will get under the bow and flip you over.

    That cat looks terrifying
     
  10. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Looks to be performing pretty well in the surf conditions....conditions I don't think a lot of production small boat tenders would do so well in?

    http://www.takacat.com/3.html
     
  11. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Also..the bow board platform on a normal rib is a valuable tool. It covers the fuel tank and acts as a forward boarding area.

    That cat cant keep its fuel tank in the bow ?
     
  12. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Since tenders should not be stored on foredeck - if properly designed - how and where should we store them?

    Most of the old pictures are now dead links, so they need to be updated to keep the thread understandable - or, at least so I can understand better.

    thanks

    wayne
     
  13. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Catamaran RIB's

    Sure looks like a pretty good performing package,...these catamaran/ttunnel hull RIB's...;)

    Here is another video that touches on origin of these type, shows a bit of their capabilities for performance, etc:
    AMIDemo video - YouTube

    Interesting review:
    The ultimate sailing - Dinghy/Tender?
     
  14. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    You should highlight what features you find attractive as a tender.

    Looks like a toy to me
     

  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Polyurea Coated Catamaran RIB

    A friend of mine and I got into a little discussion yesterday about the versatility of his RIB vs his 35' twin diesel, surface-drives powerboat, ...for just puttering around the waterways here in northern FL, and exploring creeks, marinas, etc.
    That RIB of his was much superior, and its trailer-ability opened up even wider horizons.

    When he brings the RIB back from Nova Scotia, perhaps we will get some more use out of it. BUT WAIT!, he says it is getting kind of worn out,...particularly the inflatable tubes,...high maintenance items. And new RIBS are not that cheap.

    It made me think back about this Polyurea material as a possible coating for his worn out tubes
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materials/polyurea-coatings-44255.html

    I went a step futher and looked up this old subject thread on RIBS,...I recall making a suggestion about a rather custom design RIB tender I was playing with. That one was just a little to complicated, but the D-tube shape was a good idea.

    I got to thinking why not a catamaran RIB with D-type tubes (not inflatable tubes, but just foam ones, the floors of nidacore type material, then the whole thing sprayed with Polyurea :idea:

    These two RIB videos/discussions are quite complimentary of the catamaran form.
     
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