Teak deck

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by 55Nord, Apr 18, 2009.

  1. 55Nord
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Denmark

    55Nord Hallberg-Rassy 45 for sal

    Hi all
    I own a Hallberg-Rassy 45 and am planning to get the teak deck replaced in Thailand, once we arrive there around July/August.

    I am no expert on teak so what I am asking for a little advice on different aspects:
    What to look for and be aware of when replacing a teak deck?
    Which teak are the best / worst?
    How thick teak is recommended?
    Are there any specific details about getting work done in Thailand to be aware of?

    I hope some of you out there can answer some of my questions or maybe lead me in the right direction.

    I will be looking forward to read your answers.

    Best regards Kasper
     
  2. Ken Johansson
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Semarang, Indonesia

    Ken Johansson Junior Member

    Hello!

    Make sure that the teak is quarter-sawn and that you are using a good caulking compund. Sikaflex 290 DC with primer is the best, but there are also other brands that work. Use only heartwood teak, golden brown with a waxy/oily surface. Freshly worked teak has a greenish tint and need a couple of days to show its real colour. Using same thickness as it was before (9-12mm ?) is probably the best.

    If you pass by Indonesia we could make it for you here.

    Best Regards,

    Ken
     
  3. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

     
  4. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Hi Kasper, ive laid at least a dozen teak decks in my career,most in new builds but also a few replacemants. There are a few things that limit the life of a teak deck and when the deck starts leaking it can do major damage to the sub deck.
    It is amazing how much teak gets abraded away over a realatively short period of time as the boat owner maintains it to death.
    I was taught to run a rabbet on one edge of each plank which when butted to the next created the caulking seam,this is a nice easy way to an even seam. DONT DO THIS. use square edged planks and polyethelene spacers to maintain the seam width which you remove after the glue has set,this gives a full depth seam.
    Fasten the planks down temporarily with screws thru poly tabs thru the seams,remove when the glue has set end then inject the screw holes with epoxy to seal them.
    Use a bond breaker tape in the bottom of the seam before caulking.
    There is no need to use any more than 3/8" teak for a purely decorative deck over a sub deck.
    The last deck i did was replacing the deck on a Cherubini 44.It was done exactly the way i was taught and lasted less than 20 years before plugs were worn thin and popping out and the same for the rabbeted caulk seams,water was getting to the plywood sub deck and had started rotting it,we got to it just in time,the plywood sub deck had held up much better than the balsa cored sub decks i have seen.
    A 3/16" deck i did on a 25ft boat with no visible fastener and epoxy /graphite in the seams have lasted over 20yrs and are still good.
    Steve.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    If you are in the region any way you may feel fine getting it done by "teakcell", he is a friend of mine and a forum member too. His craftsmanship is very good and he is a reliable and honest man. Being in Yangon (Rangoon) it may be besides your trip anyway.
    His mail address: mpbois@myanmar.com.mm
    Say regards from Richard, save some money, get the best quality Teak (Burma Teak) in the world for less.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  6. teakcell
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: myanmar

    teakcell Junior Member

    Hi 55Nord, I'm based in Yangon, Myanmar for over 11 years. Based in Burma because the primary forest there belongs 70% of the teak reserve from the world (Tectona Grandis).
    We are doing teak deck ready to install on plan with special silicone caulking line (that I highly recommend instead of PU) and we also export teak logs, scantling, decking, margels ... to anywhere in the world big or small quantities. Whatever you do, do make sure that the teak you use is not a plantation one and is genuine Tectona Grandis. So, make sure that you use teak with aged +/- 60 years, quarter sawn. As Apex1 kindly said, we would be able to send you some decking in Bangkok or even better, come and do your deck in Yangon if you have time. You could get very long length from here and a very unique craftmanship...
    Whatever you do make sure to buy Myanmar/Burma teak only as the main serious boatbuilders do. If you cannot get a proper guarantee that it is Tectona Grandis, scatch the teak surface with your fingers on a fresh piece of teak and if you fell the oil coming out, this is Myanmar teak. Make sure also that the wood lines are as close as possible to each other. Don't dry the teak too much and do not be too demanding for the clear color which is not going to last anyway. Be more demanding on the lines and accept no technical defects as knots. Use preferably a very good silicone caulking because PU caulking is far stronger than teak and will last longer. So when your teak is getting thinner (usually we say 1 mm / year in the worst condition) the PU remains strong and you have to change your deck faster + very unconfortable to have these PU lines under you feets and teak holes. Using Silicone (special ones that I can recommend if needed) will enable you to use more teak thickness and it will get thinner as the same time as teak.
    Good luck and do not hesitate to contact me on the factory mpbois@myanmar.com.mm or teakcell@gmail.com as I will be happy to help you any ways. Laurent.
     
  7. Ken Johansson
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Semarang, Indonesia

    Ken Johansson Junior Member

    Hello!

    There is only one type of teak and that is Tectona Grandis and there is not any difference between teak from the rainforest and plantation teak. We made a (very expensive I might add) durability test at a Swedish university that showed that the only important thing is the age of the tree and not where it is coming from. It is best to use tree that are +60 years as Teakcell mentioned.

    Use only caulking compunds that are specially made for caulking teak decks. Any other product will not be good enough. The only silicone that is good is Rhodorsil Sealine 100, and it's not really a silicone, it's an alcoxy silicone. A caulking that wears off when you walk on it would be very bad. You should sand a teak deck very, very lightly once a year (or every two years if your boat is not used much) with an orbital sander too keep it smooth and flat.

    We make a few thousand teak decks a year and have experience in all types of laying techniques and caulking compounds.

    Best Regards,

    Ken
     
  8. teakcell
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: myanmar

    teakcell Junior Member

    Hi Ken, thanks for your precious informations.
    May I add that silicone from other brands are also ok. For information Aquador boat, Targa, from Finland such as Benetteau from France do use other silicone brands. I would advise to use the brand that Finish use which is Momentive silicone. We made a lot of teak deck panels for them as sub contractor and never had any claim. In fact they demanded that we use that material.
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Sorry, there is a difference between plantation and forest lumber and a huge one.
    If you would make a few thousand decks a year (which I seriously doubt) you would know that).

    And there is not only one suitable sealant as you claimed.
    The orbital sander to clean a teak deck is not the best way too.
    So, all in all your post was not really of a professional kind.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  10. Ken Johansson
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Semarang, Indonesia

    Ken Johansson Junior Member

    Hello!

    To answer apex1's remark I would like to ask you what kind of evidence do you have that teak from the rainforest is better than plantation teak? It is a common misconception that it is better because the sizes of forest lumber is usually 60+ in diameter and in plantations they usually cut them before they reach that size. As I and teakcell points out, it is important to choose wood that comes from a large tree. The older a teak tree gets, the more teak oil will build up inside it. The best wood comes from the lower part of the tree, just above ground level.

    I do not recommend only one sealant. A PU sealant is best, but SMP's (silyl modified polymer) or alcoxy silicones are also good. The important thing is that it is formulated to use with teak. PU and SMP normally works best with a primer but most alcoxy silicones work without one.

    Hand-sanding is very time consuming so the next best thing is an orbital sander. Connect a vacuum cleaner to it and it becomes almost a dust-free environment. This is for sanding annually or bi-annually. The trick is to use the finest sand paper you can find and sand the deck very lightly. If you do it like this you don't have to renovate (sanding of 2-3mm) the deck during its life-time and it will last longer. To clean the deck it is best to use scotch-brite or a similar product and a mild detergent like pine soap. Never use a hard brush or high pressure cleaner on a teak deck.

    And for those who are interested: Yes, we make a few thousand teak decks a year. Mostly power-boats 17'-40', but recently quite a few larger ones up to 72'.


    Best Regards,

    Ken
     
  11. alex nemeth
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Australia

    alex nemeth New Member

    Hi Kasper
    Have just read your post re teak decks Hallberg Rassy 45. I had to redo my HR42 here in Australia about 5 years ago after the polyurethane recaulking that was done in 1996 had let go. The product was Sikaflex 290 DC.
    Despite ALL the replies you have had, the only truth is that HR do NOT use any polyurethane to caulk their decks. I asked HR what they used and I received a reply back from the factory, and Magnus Rassy himself to this effect. Quite simlpy their response was...do NOT use any polyurethane....use an alcoxy Silcon.

    The great problem with Sika and polyurethane is that it can only expand and contract in 2 dimensions. Properly cured teak with a moisture content less than 12%, low humidity, bond breaker tape on the deck in the space between the planks and very fastidious application of primer is what is needed for polyuethane to work. It is vital that the polyurethane is adhering to only 2 things, that is the teak either side. The tape on the deck stops adhesion in the 3rd dimension. Heat and humidity can very easily compromise the correct application and performance of the primer.

    In the end I stripped the deck which was then 20 years old and was shocked to see that IF polyuethane had NOT been used in 1996, I still had enough thickness of teak to last another 20 years. But it was too late!

    So all the screw holes were plugged, the decks epoxy coated and the new teak was glued with alcoxy silcon and also caulked with the same product.
    JUST to be safe I also used a breaker tape on the deck.

    Result has been fantastic....no seams have let go at all in our hot summer sun.

    I would advise you to contact HR before you commit to a caulking compound!
     
  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Wow! Wonderful info.
    Richard, thank-you for this obviously invaluable resource.
    Steve, doesn't the teak wear faster than the epoxy/graphite?
    What adhesive best secures a deck to a stable substrate using no permanent fasteners?
    Are there problems importing old-growth teak to USA? Are there limits?
    Laurent, what is the future outlook for being able to ship your best product to US or (second choice) Mexico?
    My limited experience is that plantation stuff has wider grain and not as much oil.
     
  13. teakcell
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: myanmar

    teakcell Junior Member

    Hi Mark,
    We ship Myanmar Teak from Singapore. So you don't have to worry of anything. We still supply our regular customers.
    Have a look at any shipyard/boatbuilder around you and you will see that he still uses Myanmar teak. Whatever people says.
    Why??? because we have no other cheaper, better, nicer and easy to process choice... And the most serious supply comes from Myanmar that holds 70% of the primary teak forest in the world..
    Re. deforestation, political issues on Myanmar, I'm a simple man and have another approach than what I hear and read. I say BUY WOOD, USE WOOD, ALL KINDS ESPECIALLY TEAK otherwise, wood will have no commercial value and trees owners will cut the trees down and turn their land for agriculture .... they might grow oily plants to make biodiesel :confused: ...
    If teak keeps its value, it remains a financial attraction and people will grow teak even if it takes 80 years... A forest can be sold at any time... In other words, stopping using teak is truly killing the forest and its future. Sorry for being a bit out of the subject.Cheers.
     
  14. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    No, absolutely. I agree 100% but I remember one of our carpenters at Delta Marine, Seattle, WA lamenting "not too many more decks made with this" - and that was fifteen years ago. I'm not ready to do my deck now but I am planning to convert my passenger boat into my retirement boat and when I do, I want teak decks (I used to have them when I was a kid and loved 'em)!
    Nobody else answered yet - What's the best adhesive when not using fasteners? Do you have written guidelines for installation? thanks - Mark
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Hi Mark,

    invaluable yes, that became unfortunately quite true!

    I do NOT recommend this company any further!

    Regards
    Richard
     
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