Tax in Australia

the flat tax while sounding egalitarian is one of the most regressive means of taxation ever invented

 

What have I accused you of, mas? The only thing I can remember saying is that that you seem to have some knee-jerk reflex about sticking up for rich people, even when they aren't being attacked.

I say rich people should pay more taxes because they make more money, and you pop up pretending it's some sort of effing morality play, where I'm claiming poor people are virtuous and rich people are evil.

Listen to yourself a little, before you get in my face again. Why do you spend so much time whining about how mean and unfair everyone is to the rich? Is it because you're rich yourself, or because you're a wanna-be with your nose stuffed up their backside?

They don't need you, mas. They're getting along just fine. You don't have to go off tilting at windmills in their behalf. Get a life.

Jeez. And I thought people on gun forums were nutz.....

 

the rich want the masses to be virtuous and moral while they steal us blind

i was just reading where morgan stanley walked away from 5 properttes that are upside down

 

Oh? And just what amazingly complex process does that involve? Break down your steps, what did you do? How did you solve the problem? What large and horribly impossible tasks did you have to overcome to do that job?

Can you list each and every step you had to do? Tell me which one of those is completely 'impossible' for a robot to ever do?

I expect it will be a very long time before a robot can be shown a boat and then the robot itself will be able to look at it and decide what is wrong and the exact jobs that need to be done to it. But removing and servicing an engine? Advanced 3d spatial mapping, and 3d image recognition are the main hurdles, especially being able to find bolts and things covered in grease. From then on it is mostly image comparison with what a properly functioning engine should be, with the really hard part being able to view unusual extras and possible hack job fixes that vary from the normal expectations for that engine model.

Fiber glass repair? 3D scanning, ultrasonic and maybe xray sampling. From there the system can build up a map for areas that must be removed due to being below a strength threshold, and advanced material milling has been around for 20 years. Reapplying material? Well it would have scans of the object from before the repair, it can even re-scan the areas and do material calculations to determine what the actual strength is now, and (based on design/goal inputs) can then calculate how much and where mat and epoxy needs to go to reach the required specs.

None of this is 'easy', but all of it is very far from impossible, and some major aspects are already used in some manufacturing processes for ultra high precision elements that a human simply can't do nearly as quickly as a robot.

 

Hi Troy, come on read you own post. It is blatantly obvious that you are pissed off at the rich Regan. You highlighted the word nothing bold, you put inverted commas on the word lossess implying it is not true, you call his negative gearing investment an accounting game and his low or no tax for that year a free ride. Also you called yourself poor and with no investment.

What I am pointing out here is not a criticism leveled at you please understand. I am trying to show you, if you are at all interested, your own values at work.

Not only you but millions...in fact most people consider those who earn more than them dubious at best and if they earn twice or three times then there is definitely something wrong (and evil). Try the experiment I suggested earlier and ask a few people you know how much is OK for a person to earn.

People can't help themselves, and it is not their fault. We incorporate this sort of values before age 10 and unless we make a conscious effort to replace such anti values with other values that serve us, those limiting beliefs will remain there to bug us all our life.
The values in your subconscious work behind the scene without you knowing yet act in your choice making all the time.

Since this thread is about tax in Australia and I happen to live in Australia and know about tax a thing or two, may I ask you what is the scale of personal income tax in the US if you know it please?

 

The usual thing to do when one disagrees about a topic is to post a contrary position not to insult the other party. You are acting like a child with a tantrum.

I can see your opinion here coincides with the one of the majority. No surprises, and by the way it is not my opinion but a school of thought that is not even that recent.

Perhaps I should have explained a bit further but it was only a side comment since the topic is taxes.
Each of us you and me included have what it is called a "personal income blueprint". This so called blueprint sets a ceiling on what we, according to our own set of values, consider it is "right" to earn, and what is "not right". Unless you do a lot of digging you wouldn't know what this blue print and where does it come from and how you could change it... And will probably feel outrage at the mere mention of possessing such limitation.
I have helped people on welfare to start their own business or to get an education and get high paid employment not by paying them more but teaching them how to replace their anti-values with values that serve them better. I use to get a lot of satisfaction from letters and testimony of very personal achievements from some very challenged individuals. After some 10 years I no longer do it, since it is very taxing and demands a lot of traveling time.
I suggest that before you abuse someone you don't know even when it is only with a few blips on a computer, think and consider that may be just may be you are attacking the wrong person. I am not the enemy. You are your own enemy. We all are when we fail to achieve what we would like.

 

Insult the other party ?You do seem to have a VERY high opinion of yourself , don`t you ?
Again you patronize and lecture.What makes you think you are qualified to lecture me , or anyone else for that matter , on " tantrums" ?

My opinion is my own.
Weather it " coincides " with " the majority " or not , is totally irrelevant , and it certainly is not an indication of its truthfulness , or otherwise.

As for your " school of thought " ,well , again , you actually seem to believe you are the only person that is aware of its implications , and origins? How conceited ..no surprises indeed.

If you think you can just come here and belittle my "values" by tacking
" anti " before it , think again. How dare you .

Get of your very high ,misplaced , and morally highly questionable , very wobbly , "anti value" high chair.
The term itself , in the cited context at least ,is totally conceited ,insulting and demeaning.

You will let me be the judge of my "own enemies."
You have no knowledge , or understanding of me , or what " i would or would not like".

You also have no grasp or understanding of the meaning of a person`s "values."My " values " are just that , MINE.
You are well advised to keep out of them. NOBODY , LEAST OF ALL YOU will dictate what they shall or shall not be.


To show up here , or anywhere else , and label them " anti " is the height of arrogance on your behalf , no matter where it came from.
Again , no surprises indeed.

You also seem to be deluded enough to believe you are in some way intellectually superior ,and in possession of your own ( superior ? ) "Values."
Well ,excuse me , but I don`t believe a word of it.The simple fact that you misunderstood others posts here ,the way you did ,
and immediately tried to apply the tired old " us verses them " dogma to it all gives a strong clue of the extent of your defective comprehension.

Now pack your " anti values " and put them where they belong.Need a clue ?

 

Elmo....how old are you?

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Old enough to know better than to believe most claims coming from your camp.

Your " us versus them " spiel is old and tired ,and misses the point entirely.

As I have already told you , I have worked with many people , some of whom displayed more substance and resolve than you could ever hope to.

While some had little , they did not display any of your implied " rich robbing poor " mentality.

It sounds like you have not come in contact with anyone like that.( no surprises ? )

Reality check is in order.Work on it.

 

Does anyone know where the idea of "If I make more and fall into a higher tax bracket, I'll have less left over after taxes!" is actually true?


I know in Canada you are taxed at the 'bracket' rate for ONLY the money that falls into that actual bracket. Is there anywhere that doesn't follow this plan for tax brackets?

$40,726: 15%

$81,452 (minus the first $40,726 taxed at 15%): 22%

$126,264 (minus the $81,452): 26%

$162,264 (minus $126,264): 29%


If I made $200,000 taxable a year (I wish, damn university and me paying it), I pay:

$_6,108.90
$_8,959.72
$11,651.12
$21,383.44
_________
$48,103.18 and not $58,000

I would take home $151,896.82, rather than $142,000.

It isn't you pay $6,108.9 if you make $40,726 taxable, but $8,959.94 if you make $40,727.

(Ignoring what the rates and brackets are set to) is there anywhere in the world where tax brackets don't work like this?

 

Luckless...
You are correct, you are taxed at each tax bracked the amount that corresponds to such bracket.

This are the brackets:

Taxable income: $1 - $6,000
/ Tax on this income: Nil

$6,001 - $34,000
15% for each dollar over $6,000 (maximum
tax in this bracket is 15% of $28,000= $4,200)

$34,001- $80,000
$4,200 + 30% for each dollar over $34,000 (maximum tax in this bracket is $4,200+ $13,800= $18,000


$80,001 - $180,000
$18,000 + 40% for each dollar over $80,000 (maximum tax in this bracket is $18,000, + $40,000 = $58,000)

$180,000+
$58,000 + 45% for each dollar over $180,000

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If you earn $34,000 a year and are offered overtime or a second job, you will effectively pay more than double the amount of tax on your overtime or second job than you would if you did not do any. Your overtime will all be taxed at 30% in stead of the overall 13% you are paying on your 34,000.

As you go further up the robbery gets bigger and bigger. If you earn $180,000 and get a second job, you will have to pay almost half your earning to the taxman.
The "progressive" tax system is actualy very regressive. It is a disincentive to succeed and a stimulus to evade.
I have yet to hear any resonable argument against flat tax.

As for previous posts, lets see if we can debate taxes without abuse and accusations of "right Wing" rich apoligist and any of that. I had two more anonimous (real valiant right?) who gave me negative feedback for telling my opinion on taxes in Australia. If you are a comunist or have otherwise a different view of the world good for you. Defend your views by telling me in which way it would be better to have a different regime, taxes in this case, and spare me the childish abuse and insults. After all I don't even live in the same country you do so I can not grasp the logic behind all this aggression. And I am not in governemt and not paid to post here either.

 

It is also the fairest tax ever invented. Punishing people for achieving is just another example of the blue crab complex.

 

Luckless,

The job of replacing engine beds.....short and sweet, simple operation that took three days to complete.

The process that I completed.
1. Using a disc grinder, I removed the old beds (Volvo fibreglass engine mounts for sail drive set up. Now......for a human, simple to see where to grind to, leaving no reesidue of the old mount....how does a robot work that out. The old mounts were incorreclty installed over gelcoat, so I removed that layer at the same time....simple for a human that knows his job, but how does a robot know that.
2. Lay the moulding for a Yanmar sail drive into the section of the baot, scribe a line around it and cut and fit to size......again, no big deal for a human, but how the hell do you programe a robot to do that, the contour of the boat is unsymetrical, dirt and grease has to be removed, degreased, ground out finally and borders set...again, simple work for a human to see and do, weeks of programming for a robot to do a one off job.
3. Glass in the new bed, csm glass with resin at 1% catalyst, two seconds for me to mix, how do you programe a robot to do such a simple thing in a confined ubdersole situation. After the initial csm I then quickly ground off excess etc and redid using bi axial strips, set at correct angles and surrounded the entiore bed and the inner sections, again, simple fasr work for a human with those skills, yet hours of wirk to programme a robot.
4. Final sand down then flowcoat the whole job to make it look pretty, once again, how do you programe a robot to do that ten minute job for me......

I rest my case mate, some jobs would take longer to programe the robot than they would take a trained himan to complete the job.

Don't get me wrong, I love robotics, bit there is a time and place on this earth for everything, the simple job I did cannot be reproduced robotically without massive time programming for a one off situation, and it is these one off type jobs that I do all year long....I can go on with my other jobs but to no avail.

 

How is earning more, and taking home more money 'disincentive' to working more? You are not Losing money! You pay more tax, but guess what, you still earn more money!


A single rate tax on everything means you are still going to "pay more tax" for every dollar more you earn. I don't see where the logic is. If someone is struggling and making next to nothing and would likely require social services to live a fair and just life,... where is the point in taxing them only to turn around and give them money back through services that will in turn cost more to manage?

1. Build 3d model (as in 3d scanning methods to automatically build the model, not a human and modeling software.), analyze the model and pick out the points that need to be removed. (This can be done easily by allowing a shop manager to look at the model in 3d, and select points to remove. Pure hands off robotics would be far harder, but not impossible) Generating movements and cutting profiles is a fairly trivial task that can be done in layers.

2. Scribing a pattern on to an asymmetric form to determine new mounting points? This can even be brute forced off the 3D model, and even fully balanced +/- a few microns with detailed enough material scans and weighting. Cleaning? This is all just surface contour tracing, and a robot could likely to a far more complete job than you can, and be cleaning several parts at once if the system includes enough arms. How many of yourself can you fit inside a confined space?

3. Laying up of material, and mixing compounds? This is a 3D modeling problem still, coupled with material strength simulations. "I have A volume of material needed: It is mixed at a rate of X + Y + Z" and a robot can accurately weigh out portions to a few milligrams or finer. Just how fine can you mix parts? Of all these problems, mixing up resin is by far the easiest.

4. Sanding and finishing, again a simple 3D contour scan. Build up a 3D model, make a copy of the model to digitally smooth. From there you compare the first model to the smoothed model, and lay out a sanding pattern. Do a first pass sanding, scan a new model, compare to smoothed model, reprocess the sanding pattern and repeat. Keep repeating this system till the scanned matches the digitally smoothed model. (Scanning and processing is a few milliseconds to do at each stage with proper hardware.)
Final coating? Contour following again.


How long would a system like this take to design and build? Years and a few million in research (which can then be put toward other projects that are even more advanced), and this can be made as very general to work in any space, and in a large number of materials.

Now the big thing is, how long did it take for you to be trained to do jobs like this? Now how long does it take to train every other worker that does a similar job? This is the killer of the human worker, we each need large amounts of training to do simple tasks like this, and if one of us can no longer work then it still takes that time again to train a replacement. Advanced robotics that can tackle a wide range of tasks take years of development, but training new workers? Well this training time is then reduced to the speed of file transfers. In the time spent training a SINGLE new human to do tasks like this, you have had time to 'train' billions of replacement robots. (If not trillions.)


If you think of robotics programming as "Move arm to point A, rotate joint B by angle C, do function D, move arm to point E, etc, etc, etc." then it is very hard to see the use of robotics. However if you look at the bleeding edge of robotics and flexible "self programming" and how it is being advanced you soon see just how dangerous they are to the common worker.


When robotics first came out they could only do one single task, that is they repeated the exact same movements with zero variations in things. Simply following the same movements as they were programmed. If they were programmed to pick up a nut and twist it onto a bolt, then that nut and that bolt had to be EXACTLY in the same spot each and every time for it to work, and nothing could be in the way of the path of the arm or things would fail and damage would be done.

However we've already advanced far beyond that. Already having a robot look at a table that has had a bucket of nuts dumped randomly over it, and pick a nut up and then look for the bolt to put it on is considered a 'trivial' task. And we're still advancing at a decent clip. By far the biggest hold back currently is in visual processing, and how to have a robot know one object from another, but a robot can already be programmed to look at a photo and pick out the faces of people in random orientations. From that they can then pick apart the face structure and compare to a database to identify the person. And this can be done with an accuracy as high as 87% in the last study I read. (And you know what, a computer can now, in real time, scan live video feed and pull out targeted faces from lists of thousands. Something even a crew of humans has no chance of being able to do.)

Now, facial image processing is far more advanced than identifying and processing other objects because of the major need for it. However the great strides and advances in this image processing is now being applied to other fields, and the 'next big thing' from what I've read in the academic circles is being able to identify weapons, and partially concealed weapons. (The goal of a few research projects is to couple facial recognition with weapon recognition, and be able to scan a crowd and automatically detect any weapons, and highlight only people who are not known to be legally carrying in the zone.)