Tally Ho holding out for a hero

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by Tiny Turnip, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Yeah.
    I posted a comment that said as such.

    He would have been better off to salvage as many side planks a possible, burn the rest of the wreck and start from scratch, based on what he has done so far.

    It will be a monument to his professional abilities, but a real knock to his managerial reputation.

    It makes a great example of the dangers of buying secondhand boats.
     
  2. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    I think you have completely missed the objective of the project, which is to restore Talley Ho, not acquire a boat as efficiently as possible. A new build may well be quicker and less expensive, but the result would be a new boat. Restoration of boats is frequently based on emotion, not financial logic. I haven't seen any evidence of mis-management.

    As for the dangers of buying secondhand boats, I doubt anyone who is experience in restoring old wood boats, including Leo, is surprised by the amount of work required.
     
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  3. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Well, I have watched his videos as he removed all the superstructure and deck deck beams carlins, keel, keelson and stems and he is planning to replace ALL the ribs.

    Now he wants to correct the unsymmetrical repaired side, and rebuild the original flat spot on the starboard side.

    What restoration is that ? Its all replacement !
     
  4. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Leo knew this all from the beginning, as he said in one of the first videos it was a foolish thing to buy Tally Ho for 1 GB pound and start her restoration, because he knew from the outset about the amount of work and money that would be involved. Nonetheless for emotional reasons, and not economical, he choose to go for it.

    I expect he has to work (maybe charter) the rest of his life to maintain her, and as a consequence by choice never get rich in money, only in happiness, and then at the end of his life pass her on to the next generation in pristine condition, just because he's a free man who does what he likes most, and is not bounded by economical rules which would prevent to reach his ultimate goal, which in my view is to live on and with the closest thing to the original, what he preserves in his chosen way, just like there are some marriages just for love and not for economics.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  5. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    BTW, like any other boat that isn't a work boat, it's for the joy it gives, not because it makes any sense, Leo's way with Tally Ho gives him more joy than building a new one, so his gain is in happiness.
     
  6. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Yeah, BUT I am not discussing his motives, just the fact thats its NOT a restoration.

    More examples, he has taken all the steel .. um, "frame reinforcing" can't be bothered looking up the term, that are screwed into the keelson, and is going to replace them with silicon bronze, despite them being original and still serviceable.

    Also, a lot of the stuff he has found was not expected. The replacement of the whole keelson was the biggest let down. He originally hoped to recover many of the deck beams too.

    At that point, he would have been better to recover as many planks as possible, remove everything above the new keelson, loft and mount the new ribs based on the plans then replace the planking, since he is unhappy with the original lines on both sides. He is going to have to try to measure and replace the ribs, keep them level and aligned with temporary bracing anyway, so having a few planks in place is just not any different to the new build process.

    As it stands, he is making whole lot of work for no gain in authenticity, but lots of problems working around the existing rotted timber.
     
  7. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    Yeah but doing it his way, ie replacing whilst the hull is sitting in place allows him to claim it's the original boat and the pleasure of having restored Albert Strange's largest design. A new build carries no emotional attachment and of course, folks on the internet wouldn't be queuing to finance it! Both sides of the argument are right and both are wrong.
     
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  8. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    ain't this the truth

    to be fair to Leo, the project started to creep as many boat repairs will
     
  9. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Replacing almost all parts of a boat and describing it as a restoration is standard practice in the boat repair/restoration/rebuilding/building business.

    What constitutes a restoration can be debated endlessly without resolution. For instance a simple definition would seem to be that a restoration can not have more than xx% of the existing boat replaced during the restoration. This can then lead to questions such as do all parts count equally, is the percentage calculated based on weight, volume, value or what. And then there is the big question - what if the remainder of the boat was previously replaced? Is a rolling restoration where each part of the boat is replaced but the boat is made "whole" in between phases fundamentally different than doing exactly the same work but without the boat being made "whole" at intermediate phases?

    Remember George Washington's legendary axe - the handle was replaced five times and the head twice but it is still George Washington's axe. (Note: In reality the axe does not exist so no use to ask where it is.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  10. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I've decided to look into the Oxford living English dictionaries which definition comes closest to what Leo does, everyone best picks one's own favorite, and then decides whether to regard that for oneself as a fact or an opinion...

    | Restoration | Replacement | Rebuild | room for more definitions |

    For me the definition of restoration is by far the most accurate for what Leo is doing on Tally Ho, that's my opinion . . ;)

    P.S. - Rebuild comes second, and replacement goes for a lot or maybe even most of the parts, to rank the above options, according to my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  11. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

  12. RHP
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    RHP Senior Member

    Seen differently. There's no purpose in maintaining a vessel in an unseaworthy state. So either you 'restore' her to a seaworthy condition or scrap her.
    Through the evolution of a rebuild she floats again, so she is original because her spirit is intact.
    Take the name board and nail it to a new vessel 'different' vessel and she's dead.

    It's more an ethical decision than a physical one. Yes you've replaced 80% of the timbers but the same boat goes out of the yard that came in.
     
  13. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    This is getting theological .. the SPIRIT ????

    Its time to get a grip and realise that the project stopped being a restoration when usable parts ( steel frame knees, originally built lines) are discarded, and 90% of the boat has rotted away, the boat has became a replica.

    "This Parrot is dead, deceased, no more - it has gone to its maker ...."
     
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  14. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Why is this important to you?
     
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  15. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    I dunno.

    I just expressed an opinion, and then everyone else made a comment.
     
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