Taking an production old boat hardcore

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by souljour2000, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    I thought this link might be interesting to those out there like myself who are trying to fix up an older production boat instead of buying new or what have you.

    I suppose it shows some of the possibilities of what someone with time and some funds can do to an old production boat to make a solid coastal or even a bluewater boat. If anyone cares to comment on his narrative or not I will say it raised a few questions in my mind with regard to a few of his alterations/improvements and whether I'd consider doing them to my own old production boat.For example; Filling in all the thru-hulls seems to be a common practice these days but what are the pros and cons Any thoughts?

    This gentleman certainly put an amazing amount of work into her..she looks great...too bad he's having to sell her as she must be rather dear to him after so much work and cost...


    http://www2.trailersailor.com/index.php?option=com_adsmanager&Itemid=298&page=showad&adid=11149
     
  2. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    This is not an uncommon activity, I have seen it with boats, cars and even campers/travel trailers. Usually it is more of a creative challenge than practical, and if done well will satisfy the owner. In fact it should ONLY be done for the sake of satisfying the owner, because as you can see, it is a very poor investment. If you do it, do it for your own enjoyment, assuming you will not get your money out of it.

    Seldom does it ever pay off if you have to sell it. Usually if the work is done by the owner and it can be done skillfully, it will save money over buying a similarly equipped boat. That particular owner says he put over $50k into it, he must have paid others for much of the work in addition to the work he describes as doing himself. Even so, it appears a very poor investment. I hope he got his $50k worth of enjoyment out of it, I think it would be questionable if he even gets what he is asking out of it.

    I actually hope to do something similar in the near future, buy an old but solid fixer, and rebuild it into an nice pocket cruiser that I can keep on a trailer at home. But there is on way I would spend anywhere near $50k on a small boat. That just strikes me as excessive, obviously this guy just wanted everything not only new, but top notch as well. I know people that have built similar sized sailboats from scratch, putting a lot of quality fittings and rigging into it, and have less than that invested.

    Through hull fittings are one source of long term problems with any boat, especially one that spend most of its life in the water. Many stories I have read about seepage developing at a through hull fitting when out at sea, specially on an aging hull. Removing it means there is one less source of trouble. And in the case of the chain plate mounts he wanted a thicker, stronger hull to attached them to.
     
  3. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Good post Petros...Yes, it almost hurts to see a fellow sell a boat like this that he has sunk so much time and effort and money into but I guess he says he's getting a bigger boat and I'm sure he learned alot in the process however costly the process was... . I have seen a few boat projects done to this degree but not many... though it is somewhat common.
    I have an old Seafarer 24 from 1971 that I'm trying to upgrade a bit so this really caught my eye when I read the rather extensive list of work done on a boat of the same size and vintage. I got her fairly cheap at 700 dollars and have spent another 700 bucks on her since...mostly for a few canvas sail projects on the staysail which was in great shape but had hanks while their happened to be a older harken roller furler on the forestay.

    I want to do some other upgrades in addition to the replacement of aging or damaged fittings etc. I'd love to replace the chainplates which seem quite suspect and add a few new layers of glass to the inner hull in a few places but those things are down the road a ways... The boat is in need of lots of work and nothing more so than a good bottom job later this winter. I am trying to keep her up and improve her on a tight budget but at least at the price I got her..I can probably sell her fairly quickly if I had to (she's a handsome gal from a more elegant time)and not lose much if anything but hopefully I can keep her for awhile.Trying to focus on critical items but have also fallen victim to cosmetic wants(I have just epoxied in a faux wood floor ( veneer strips of some wood flooring so I would not affect the already low headroom).

    Seeing this ad made me sit down and figure out what I have spent so far and create a maintenance log which I in retrospect should have done right at the outset. I hope someday to move to a bigger boat which I could live on but right now I am still smitten with the S-24. I don't think I'm smitten to the point this fellow was with his Bristol..for one thing , my wallet doesn't allow for that type nautical romance...but even small pockets over time can add up to big outlays of cash. I am tempted to wonder how much I have spent on boats in the last 7-8 years alone...and then I decide not to go there.... there are worse addictions though...
     
  4. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Petros Senior Member

    yes, me too. I do not track it that closely either, I just figure it is from the fun/recreation budget. I have built 13 small wood boats over 30 years, spent no more than $200-300 on any one of them. I have owned several production boats, always sold for about what I had into them (but I did not check the total cost).

    I want to get something a bit bigger, 22 to 28 ft range, like what you have, for local overnight trips in Puget Sound. A trailer sailer. I ran across a Norwest21 recently, on a trailer, only $600. solid but needed sails, and a lot of TLC. More than I wanted to take on right now, may be in a year or two (my youngest will be out of the house by then). I figure that is the only way I can afford a pocket cruiser, keep it on a trailer at home. I also see free boats regularly, but not sure if "free" is a good deal. spending $2000 for a ready to sail boat is a much better deal usually.
     
  5. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

  6. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Good luck in your boat hunt... helps to know what you want and even more importantly when you see it...I might recommend Marina or non-profit donated boat auctions and spending as much time looking her over as the marina dockmaster will allow before" high noon" on auction day. When I bought mine we had about an hour to poke around in and on her before the auction started. I had almost zero hard info on her...didnt know if the 9.8 merc sailmaster had started in this millenium or not...the lower unit looked almost new..the powerhead was just the opposite.(Turned out it only needed an impeller and plugs..starts first pull since w/ good compression).

    Also didn't know whether the hull had blisters...I still dont really but if there are some they are small....the sails below in the v-birth were decent ( genoa was above frying unprotected in the Florida sun for a year by then on the roller furler. Standing rigging is good but not sure about chainplates... Bolts I am replacing right now...they're shot... The Main turns out to be blown more or less but is serviceable...spinnaker old but serviceable....ain't got a pole/rigging for that yet though.... 110 jib was practically new but had hanks and needed 180 dollar luff tape/ spline job to mount it on the furler.Then 230 bucks for a sun cover .

    It was an impulse buy ...I have spent about 1,500 bucks I'd say.. I could probably sell her for that in a few weeks around here so I'd say I was fairly lucky. I am looking at a 800-900 dollar bottom job later this winter. She last had one in 2005 ..a long time in these waters...

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    So auctions are a crapshoot.... If you go that route set a number you won't go past (say 500-600 dollars) . At least then you can get out if you have to without too much damage.

    Probably best to stay the course you mentioned....save up for awhile and get what you want..if you can wait.There will be still be some good $2,000-3,000 boats on the market for the foreseeable future that you can really inspect and make a more informed decision on than u can at auction.
     
  7. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Ran into a guy in Mexico 15 years ago when cruising on BERTIE. He had an old Cal 40 he'd enlarged the cabin/shortened the cockpit on and it was one of the most overloaded boats I think I ever saw with canoes, kayaks, dive gear etc everywhere. His work was rough but thorough, he was having a blast and in his third year of cruising.
    Another trio of young guys in San Francisco bought a Navy 26' f/g motor whaleboat for $1000, put a foredeck on it, a solid mast with a big spritsail and jib, leeboards, sleeping bags and surfboards and off they went to Mexico.... Saw one of them years later and he said they had the best time of their lives, got as far as central America where they sold the boat to a fisherman and flew home after almost a year of it.
    Go cruising now, it's later than you think.
     
  8. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Right...Bataan..I think the main thing is to get on the water in something and start learning what you are really after...,I have a small boat so I am trying to make her as comfortable as possible and safe as I can reasonably too in the process. I would like to have full flotation compartmenst glassed in where possible...an outboard well...a better anchoring sustem like a bowsprit anchor/roller set-up,etc. ....right now I am doing stuff she needs that won't break my wallet until I know if I want to have this size boat or move up...Right now I don't want to move up to any boat unless she has the style and beautiful lines of the girl I'm dating now...it's not likely I'll find one that can match her looks and that I can afford in say 27-30 foot range but you never know.In the meantime I'll try to build her value a bit and build my seamanship skill set.

    Sailed her the other day with 8 teenagers aboard...kids are great sailing companions..can squeeze onto any spot of a smaller boat without complaint.we had a good camping trip though I felt a bit like a harbor pilot shuttling them back and forth from our island campsite to the dock as they came and went while i tried to accomodate their various holiday schedules...was a good trip all in all...beautiful weather and some campfire songs...Next time will have to be a smaller group...and less logistics..:idea::)
     

  9. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    We just had a few days of hard freeze along with snow. It's gone now and the air is warmer, but I'm not going sailing yet. Sounds like you know what you're doing!
     
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