Table saw follows grain?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by lewisboats, Nov 24, 2014.

  1. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    While cutting some strips to laminate my stem from, my saw really mated with the dog. I was trying to cut a DF 4x4 into 3/8" thick strips (flat sawn with the grain) to laminate up with 1/4 sawn strips to build up a 2" x 3" deep keel, stem and stern. I got the 4x4 down to 2 1/2" x 3" and started cutting the 1/2" thick strips and d**ned if blade didn't start tracking along a growth line and ruin what could have been 6 strips. I only got 3 usable pieces out of it, but I'll have to plane the crap out of them to get them to thickness. Any suggestions other than a) get a new saw, or b) use a band saw. The one I have couldn't handle it and I don't have the funds to re-equip with either type.
     
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  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    How many teeth and how old is the blade? Did you really feather board the crap out of it, on the fence? Douglas fir has a dramatic difference in density between winter and summer growth, so you have to mash it tight on the table and fence and use a good blade, feeding stock at the right speed and of course, a non-wobbly arbor on the saw.
     
  3. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    Make sure the fence is aligned with the blade.
     
  4. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Basically, you are stuffed. Find a shop with a ripping saw to do it for you. This is what a rip saw looks like - http://www.grizzly.com/products/Straight-Line-Rip-Saw/G0524

    If you still have a supply of noncarbide blades and a file and set, you can tune a proper steel rip blade with the correct hook to suit the wood species. But nobody seems to do that much anymore. I learned when I was a kid. I made miles of trim and paneling from scrap lumber using an old rockwell 5" planer-surfacer and the table saw.

    I used to have one of these and it was okay, http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LM74R010-10-Inch-Ripping-PermaShield/dp/B00006XMTV/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_z but I had access to an old Delta table saw with a cast iron base that weighed about a ton. It would rip flame Mahogany up to about 1.5 inches thick but I still had dress the peices with a plane.
     
  5. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Don't believe that can happen if the fence is aligned reasonably well, the blade is sharp and you use a good featherboard. Never seen that happen on a table saw.
     
  6. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Featherboard it is... or wasn't. They weren't a subject covered in my 9 week introductory wood shop class in high school over a quarter century ago. Well... it was only $10 in wood. Blade is decent and in good shape... just the operator doesn't have too much experience with using the saw.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Completely wrong blade, Steve. At least get yourself a purpose-made ripping blade. 2.5" thick is a challenge for any 10" saw to rip because you can't control the angle the teeth are making with the grain. Menards doesn't even have basic application data listed for that blade, let alone tooth geometry, grind, pattern, and set. It is a basic cheap box saw blade with nowhere near a big enough gullet to saw 2.5 inch stock. Try and find a TCG or CTCG with at least a 25 degree hook. A lot of "finish" blades have a shaving side face and narrow kerf. You definitely don't want this feature when ripping.
     
  8. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    That blade looks like a crosscut one to me. I think my 315mm diameter blades are about 46/48 teeth and that is Gen Purpose, the Ripper is about 28. If I have something really fine, like acrylic sheet or aluminium, I can use a 250mm Diameter non ferrous with 82 teeth and no set.

    Biggest problem is blade width, and loosing too much stock. For certain very fine cuts over a large width, say 4mm thick at 200+mm I get someone with a monster bandsaw to do it - cheaper and more accurate with less stock waste. Generally if the bandsaw blade is getting on 9+ meters and about 100mm+ deep it will do that kind of cut. I don't have enough work for that type of cut so farm it out. Stock loss from cut is 1.5-1.7mm with these large blades, half that of using my tablesaw so significant.
     
  9. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    So I am looking at a coarser, thicker blade to plow through the wood instead of a finer one that follows the grain? Even a 1/8-3/16" thick blade would give me better results than what I got if it cut through the grain lines and gave me a straight cut? Of course... adding a finger board instead of using muscle power to keep it against the fence.
     
  10. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Great question, Steve. I learned something here today. :cool:
     
  11. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    On the right track, you need a relatively small number of teeth for ripping along the grain. If you have fairly clear grain a thin width of kerf is good as you waste less. So yes a 2.5mm thick kerf will save quite a lot over a 3.2mm (1/8th") over 50 cuts or even 20 especially if you are ripping 6mm or 10mm wide strips. That was also part of my bandsaw tale, I don't like buying expensive Spruce in small quantities for guitar tops when I can buy 2" or 3" thick stock where I can judge not just grain but run out. So cutting 4mm thick by 225mm (just over 1/8 by 9") is a bandsaw special and I gain two tops + on a 2" thick piece. If I have selected the timber well enough I get a top for £10 instead of £50-80 at least for equivalent quality......;) and I have included paying for the bandsaw machining in that first cost!.

    Same applies on thin strip planking, though if the timber is cheap enough, less of a problem. I prefer reputable European and English made blades over far eastern cheap stuff which can 'loose' teeth on slightly difficult grain etc.

    I had a 100' Doug Fir planked a few years back - the rip blade 600mm (2') had 6 teeth on it. V twin petrol engine driven, check out a thing called a Lucas Mill.
     
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Lucas Mill is one of those portable log cutting things. It takes as much time to set one up as it does to hand saw the logs. It's basically a horizontal gas powered band saw. I've used much better versions of these puppies, once to build a log cabin on site, but they're not very accurate.

    If you do a lot of this type of milling, a resaw machine is what you want. I have one, probably 100 plus years old. The thing weighs hundreds of pounds and runs a 14' long 3" wide blade. It's a big *** band saw, with tilting table, huge throat and cut depth. No guards, just massive open wheels, frame and guides, but it's precise on large stock. It takes the better part of half a day to sharpen the blade and occasionally it'll need to be TIG'd back together. Unless you need a lot of mill work, then this isn't a machine you want. I use it maybe once a year, often just to cut stock for the fireplace. Quartering 12" logs in a few minutes, is worth driving out to the coast to use it.
     
  13. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Well the one I got in took not too long say 30 mins to set up and was not too bad especially as we made efforts to QS the tree as much as possible. The cuts were over 200 by 60 (8" X 21/2") and over 4 meters long. This one was a circular, not a bandsaw. As there was no way to get the heavy more traditional Bandsaw type to the tree, it was a good option. I believe the Lucas Mill was developed by the Aussies to allow a couple of guys to plank stuff in the Outback where good trees had fallen in storms etc. Simpler than trying to move a heavy tree, or a good part of, by hand....

    I once worked for a French vigneron whose twin brother had a massive bandsaw for cutting full trees up to a meter or so diameter. The blades were sharpened on a custom home made rolling bed which simulated the actual wheel run and a little grinding wheel would actuate in and sharpen each 'hook'. Took about 25-30 mins, blade life was about 3-4 hours before sharpening. Not a bad bit of homemade kit, along with a small bandsaw made from moped wheels! Trees cut included oaks, walnut, elm and other stuff mainly deciduous hardwoods. Regrettably a lot went into making pallets.
     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I made a band saw once and found the mechanism not so tough, so long as it was stout and stiff. The key was blade guide accuracy. I used a double roller bearing setup on each side of the cut.
     

  15. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Well... I'm going to get one of these,

    [​IMG]

    and make some feather boards and give it another shot. I'll have to wait a bit until I get another decent piece of timber. Tomorrow I'll go cruise through the 16 footers as I've been through the shorter stuff.
     
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