Sydney-Hobart 2016

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  2. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    And there is your problem. You are putting your opinion above that of a guy who has been intimately involved in every aspect of the boat and sailing it competitively (and winning) for years. Pretty easy to work out which opinion is worth listening to.

    Until you retract your assertion that Wild Oats stole the IP, you're a good target for a defamation suit.

    You actually asserted:

    So you are firstly deliberately mis-quoting what was said (and contradicting your other assertions that the foil wasn't design for the boat) and asserting that either they figured the saving in weight was better than the wing, or the wing itself was overweight and should be lighter.

    If Mark Richards says they're better off without it, you should believe that and stop putting your opinion above that of others who actually know what they are talking about.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===============
    I never made such an assertion-that is false.
     
  4. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    You said it "sounds like" the Wild Oats team used DSS without Hugh's permission. That is very close to an assertion, and perhaps would be classed as an assertion.

    OzFred's right, it is bizarre that you assume that you know more about WOXI than the man who has been running it for years and shattered the records for Hobart wins. How many maxis and supermaxis have you raced on? How many major races have you ever won? How many times have you experienced the action of a boat anything like that in the waves off the Australian coast?
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sydney-Hobart

    ---------------------------------------
    "Sounds like" was in direct reference to comments made by oz fred in post 7. I have no evidence that Wild Oats didn't have a license from DSS for their second foil. I'm trying to find out more. The fact that they didn't acknowledge that they were using a DSS foil is very troubling.
    And saying they removed the foil because of the new bow and the foil systems weight is just funny.....
    It hadn't occurred to me until just now but ,perhaps there could have been a legal reason why they removed the DSS foil?
    -------------------
    I've supported Wild Oats in every SH since they started racing and I will this year as well-barring any startling revelations.......
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    CQS with DSS

    Launched:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    CQS with DSS

    Launched 2:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    It's rather odd to realise that (if I have the details right) it is now about 16 years since I was standing pretty much where the left-hand bloke in the hi-vis vest is standing in the top pic, driving the same deck into Sydney Heads under assy when it was part of the old 80+' Nicorette. Reports and recollections seem to indicate the old 80+' Nicorette was itself a cut 'n shut job off an old Whitbread IOR boat (UBF Finland comes to mind). The deck of the 80+'er was then used on the 90'er, which has now been cut and shut into this 100'er. If so, the deck may have had four different hulls underneath!
     
  9. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    You said it "sounds like" they did something illegal. The fact that you made the allegation after taking some information from another person is no defence in this situation. You took 1 and 1 and made it 5.

    You just put yourself further into the mire with the underlined passage. You have no proof that they had a DSS foil, or that there is anything troubling about their use of any such foil or public acknowledgement of such. For all you know, there may have been some sort of arrangements made to allow them to use the DSS concept for development or in some other way, and they may not have used a "DSS foil" in any unethical or illegal fashion. You also have no proof that they didn't "acknowledge" something.

    Based on what is known of those involved (and minor personal contact) it would be extremely unlikely that they would do anything dodgy. Apart from anything else, why would they bother?

    Of course, nothing will come of it since the Oatleys and all concerned are not going to care, but OzFred's point is probably correct.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    DSS / Wild Oats XI

    I stand by what I said 100% despite the misrepresentation by you and "oz fred".
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    CQS with DSS (straight)

    Interesting difference between CQS and many other DSS boats. Most are designed with a curved foil so the resultant lift from the foil is vertical when the boat is heeled , but CQS has an absolutely straight foil equipped with a flap.
    Any heel at all and a component of lift will be to leeward......

    CQS Straight DSS Foil:
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  13. Doug Lord
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  14. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    Just a comment from the peanut gallery. I simply can't understand what CT, Oz Fred, and Gary are getting so worked up about. This is an entirely ordinary forum discussion. Why the high dudgeon? Feel free to provide you own take on what motivated WOXI's program people, but you have to admit that

    sounds like a calibrated bit of misdirection. I'm okay not knowing what the issues were that led to the decision, but I am also free to speculate that they involve more than what has been stated. And taking a poke at them for quotes like the above is an entirely mundane forum activity.
     

  15. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    The "high dudgeon" may come from the fact that some of us don't like posters claiming, in effect, that Richo and the other Wild Oats people are professionally incompetent and may be thieves. The WOXI team are people like you and I. For someone to allege them of possible theft of intellectual property, when they have no evidence whatsoever to base any such allegation, is not the sort of thing that should be common on any forum. If any poster is going to allege other people of possible theft then they can hardly complain when much milder allegations are thrown back at them. The allegations that the WOXI team are "incredibly nuts" and can't install a DSS system properly aren't much better.

    I have to admit, I don't understand the concept that saying that someone may be a thief is OK as long as it's done on the internet. It's not the thinking where WOXI and the team live. To you these guys may just be images on the internet, but in reality they are people who should not be grossly insulted.

    There's also the issue that we're not going to learn much if the default reaction of such news is for people who have never sailed a boat remotely like WOXI on a race remotely like the Hobart to accuse the designers of being "incredibly nuts". Surely the best reaction is to watch and wait.
     
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