Sydney-Hobart 2016

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    The fact that Comanche won't show up is unfortunate.
    And there is big news from Wild Oats-they are removing their DSS foil:

    ANOTHER MODIFICATION FOR WILD OATS XI IN PREPARATION FOR THE ROLEX SYDNEY HOBART RACE

    By: Rob Mundle

    A year after undergoing dramatic structural surgery, where one-third of her hull was cut off at the bow and replaced with a new and improved section, famous supermaxi Wild Oats XI is to undergo another modification on the eve of the Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race.
    The new, 11-metre long forward section of the hull has proved to be so efficient that it has negated the need for the horizontal hydrofoil wing, a feature added to the hull three years ago to prevent Wild Oats XI from nose-diving when charging downwind under spinnaker.
    The new bow shape has made a dramatic difference to the yachts speed both upwind and down, said Wild Oats XIs skipper, Mark Richards. And, when racing downwind offshore we can now sail the yacht at more than 30 knots without any fear of nose-diving.
    This improvement means we no longer need the retractable horizontal wing to provide lift its like excess baggage so were going to remove it. Its a decision that was also influenced by the fact that well save more than 300 kilograms in hull weight.
    Wild Oats XI, which is campaigned by the Oatley family, is one of a fleet of 100 yachts entered for the 628 nautical mile Hobart race, starting December 26. The 30-metre long silver-hulled supermaxi stands as the most successful yacht in the events 71-year history, and Richards the most successful skipper.
    Wild Oats XI will this year be going for an unprecedented ninth line honours, and, given the right conditions, she could well claim the treble for the third time line and handicap honours and a race record. In 2005 the year she was launched Wild Oats XI became the first yacht to achieve that remarkable result since Rani in the inaugural event in 1945.
    This year Richards is hoping for a change of fortune after a campaign that was laced with sadness, high pressure and misfortune last year. Weighing heaviest on the program was the declining health of the yachts owner, 87-year-old Bob Oatley AO, and the rush to get the hull modifications completed in time for the race where the star billing was a showdown with American supermaxi, Comanche. As it turned out, Wild Oats XI was forced to retire from the race during the first night at sea due to sail damage.
    Last year was a big disappointment, Richards said. We were very unsettled, and I didnt feel right about it for all of December. In hindsight, I think we made the changes too close to race start.
    This year, all pressure is off. Were out there to do it for Bob, who is now in a better place. Weve done a lot of work further developing the boat, the crew is probably the best ever, and we have a better training schedule.
    But as Richards and his team came to realise in last years Hobart race, it doesnt take much to force a yacht out of the contest and this year there will be two similar sized supermaxis racing, Scallywag, owned by Seng Huang Lee, from Hong Kong, and Anthony Bells Perpetual Loyal.
    While all sailors know that in an ocean race you can only deal with the weather on the day, deep down the Wild Oats XI crew are hoping that at some stage at least theyll get strong downwind conditions where the yacht will be off the leash. And, if those conditions prevail for much of the distance they could well better their own course record time of 1 day, 18 hours, 23 minutes, 12 seconds. If she could repeat of her record run in this years Brisbane to Keppel race, where she averaged 20 knots for the 348 nautical mile course, she would lop an impressive 12 hours off her record for the Hobart but thats a big if in the classic.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Design sketch done by Hugh Welbourn for 100' super maxi:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Super Maxi CQS-DSS Foil Wingtips

    This and the flaps shown above are very new in DSS foils. I think I read that the angle of incidence of the whole foil is adjustable-also a first if true.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    You might note that nowhere in the article do they call it a "DSS foil". Because as far as Wild Oats is concerned, it isn't.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Dss

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and flies like a duck then its a duck!
    It always was DSS and no historic revisionism will change that fact. Removing it seems incredibly nuts to me-unless they did try to rip-off DSS and screwed up the installation so it never worked right?
     
  7. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    The original foil was developed by a collaborative effort between Wild Oats and DSS (the company). The second foil was designed and installed by local designers and engineers based on a Wild Oats design, no doubt leveraging knowledge gained from the collaboration.

    The second foil has never been referred to as a "DSS foil" by anyone representing Wild Oats, quite the opposite.

    You know this as it has been discussed before.

    Your inference of IP infringement by Wild Oats is libellous and utterly without any basis in fact. Please retract it.

    Your assertion that a large team of very highly skilled engineers, designers and sailors got it wrong means you'd rather cast aspersions on the competence of others than admit to flaws in your own understanding of hydrofoils (and is, again, utterly unfounded).
     
  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Dss

    ============================

    If they used DSS without Hugh's permission then they stole his intellectual property. Based on what you say above it sounds like that was the case and ,further, that they may have screwed up the installation so badly they had to remove it. I'll be real interested what Hugh says about it. I'll get the actual facts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2016
  9. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Quoted for posterity, as they say.
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    DSS / Wild Oats XI

    Fact: removing DSS from a boat designed for it "because it weighs too much"
    is flat absurd. So perhaps the boat was not designed for it? Or maybe there were other problems?
    Maybe they looked at the much lighter weight of the DSS equipped CQS Super Maxi and decided they'd better unload some weight and chose the DSS system because it wasn't actually designed for the boat after all?

    But then again:

     
  11. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    You attempt to justify one libellous statement with an even more outlandish one? Despite having read that Wild Oats and DSS were in a publicly acknowledged collaboration on design and fitting of the first wing?

    Glad to see you post it before getting the "actual facts".

    Yet again your first response is to cast aspersions on others when things don't fit your view.
     
  12. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Your "fact" is either a deliberate misrepresentation of statements in the article or your comprehension skills are seriously lacking. It's your incorrect opinion presented as a quote from someone else (which is deceitful).

    You might also note that neither Mark Richards (the skipper of Wild Oats) nor Rob Mundle (author of the article) use the term "DSS".

    I've re–quoted the relevant part below to restore the punctuation removed in your post:

    In summary, the foil was removed because it wasn't needed after the bow was extended. Saving 300 kg was just one factor in the decision (there are other benefits too, such as two fewer holes in the hull, one less bit of complex machinery to go wrong, one less appendage to break, one less thing to trim or worry about during a tack or gybe, etc.).

    That is another absurd statement. The original was designed in collaboration with DSS, now your casting aspersions on their design skills too.

    And how do you come to the conclusion that it "wasn't actually designed for the boat"? Do you think they just picked one off the shelf and fitted it?

    And how do you know the CQS wing is any lighter? How much does it add to the weight of the boat? You'll need to include all the hull strengthening, machinery to adjust and move the wing, plus any trimming equipment, etc. Please enlighten us.

    Why do you chose to believe Mark Richards in one quote but doubt his opinion in another? Is it just because one suits your view and the other doesn't?

    That quote is from 2013 and relates to the original foil, before the bow modification. The following year Wild Oats won the Sydney to Hobart with its second foil (the non–DSS one designed and fitted by the Wild Oats team).

    If their foil was so bad, how come Wild Oats still won line honours against Comanche and was in the running to do so again in 2015 until the mainsail was torn?
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Wild Oats

    “This improvement means we no longer need the retractable horizontal wing to provide lift – it’s like excess baggage – so we’re going to remove it. It’s a decision that was also influenced by the fact that we’ll save more than 300 kilograms in hull weight."
    -----------
    This statement is ridiculous, in my opinion, IF the foil was designed properly, built properly and installed properly. A DSS foil that meets these criteria "pays" for itself weight and performance wise. Apparently, Wild Oats used a "legal" DSS foil, but never called it DSS and then may have used an illegal DSS foil designed built and installed "locally"? Seems incredible to me! I'm not sure (yet) that they really did use an unlicensed DSS foil, as you suggest they did, but I'm still looking into it.

    Further, using a foil that looks like a DSS foil and works like a DSS foil but refusing to acknowledge that it is a DSS foil is unfortunate, just plain wrong and completely unprofessional. And IF it was unlicensed it was illegal.
    ----
    I was told by someone in a position to know that CQS is substantially lighter than Wild Oats. I never made any comment about the DSS foils on CQS other than that they are tapered and have an adjustable flap.
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sydney-Hobart--DSS equipped Super Maxi CQS

    CQS on land:

    [​IMG]
     

  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    These links are copied from the 2015 Sydney-Hobart thread and may have to be updated later.
    =================

    Live coverage of Sydney -Hobart should be here about 8:30pm December 25TH Eastern: https://au.sports.yahoo.com/#page1
    https://au.tv.yahoo.com/plus7/live/


    Nick Douglas, Sailor Girl Live for Sydney-Hobart: http://www.nicdouglass.org/ NOTE: Nick's broadcast will begin about 4pm Eastern the afternoon of the 25th!

    Twitter: https://twitter.com/rshyr

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RolexSydneyHobart

    Race website: http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/

    Tracker: http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/tracker/

    Following the race: http://www.rolexsydneyhobart.com/spectators/following-the-race/
     
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