Sydney-Hobart 2013

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. neris
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    neris Junior Member

    Do the little boats under 80 foot not get a mention in the media coverage or does the whole race revolve around a few big boats?
     
  2. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yup...thats the way it always is. The reason people build these huge monsters is for the press coverage and prestige.

    The seamanship and racing is always back in the fleet of small boats .
     
  3. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    I haven't seen Tom in years but I do not think that he is a liar, which is what you are claiming. He's a fine man. Understated, quiet and honest when I knew him.

    What is it with some Boat Design Forum posters and their addiction to slagging off the honesty of fine people they have probably never met?
     
  4. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    If its 3% boat speed increase, then why did they not keep up with their own best time?
     
  5. neris
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    neris Junior Member

    Its called been a keyboard warrior, all fingers behind an ip address but if they stood in front of the person they quickly shut up and be nice and polite
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =============
    I think you're right Mr. Watson-I think it's higher than 3% on other DSS boats designed specifically for DSS.
     
  7. Baltic Bandit

    Baltic Bandit Previous Member

    Right because magically, DSS foils generate more lift on "special hulls"..
     
  8. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    It's not hard to see possible reasons why DSS could be less effective on a boat like Oats than on some other designs. The fact that Oats is so skinny would mean that the DSS foil's lift is not generated as far from the CL. She also has a canting keel so already has more stability than a fixed keeler so the extra RM from a DSS foil will be of less importance.

    I'm not sure of the above but it does seem possible that the DSS would only give 3% to Oats but more than that to other craft IMHO.

    The bow is still going down at times...
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===================
    CT, you're close. A boat designed for DSS can have larger sail area for light air than a boat without it because it has so much more RM in stronger wind.
    The early DSS boats with excellent records like the Quant 28-virtually undefeated(beating many larger boats)-didn't use canting keels but they had wide wings to get upwind RM. Neither do the Quant 30's(wide wings) and the two Infinity 36's with DSS. Depending on the boat, the upwind contribution by DSS can be about 14% or so of total RM-if it is even used upwind. A canting keel makes sense for upwind RM on bigger, narrow boats. DSS improves the motion of any boat it is used on-specifically reducing pitching and dampening heave, and in the earliest designs has reduced displacement as well as increasing RM.
    It will be interesting to see what the new 100 footer's design compromises are. Hugh had tried going the route of modifying an existing boat but wasn't too satisfactory-and he was determined to stay clear of that up until Wild Oats XI where he obviously decided that it should work as well as it has.
    ====
    In the video interview with the Wild Oats navigator he specifically said that the foil kept the bow up but there will obviously be conditions where that isn't true-with any boat-not just WOXI.
    From the DSS site:
    ‘There was a noticeable lift in the bow when we were reaching and running,’ said Wild Oats XI’s skipper, Mark Richards. ‘At this early stage it’s safe to say it makes a difference. We are certainly looking forward to putting the concept through a complete series of tests at Audi Hamilton Island Race Week.’
     
  10. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    What a funny strange, self righteous little polemic.

    In racing, everyone is really conservative, is that lying ? Only in your strange little world.

    For a start, saying 3% increase is such a nebulous figure. I bet on some wind directions it goes higher, and in others it goes much lower. It will change with every wind variation, several times an hour.
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===================
    Mr. Watson, from what Hugh has told me you are 100% right.....
     
  12. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Some boats have had big trouble:
    Race Organiser Notes
    •Audi Sunshine Coast - Retired - Rig Damage
    •Canute - Retired - Rudder Bearing - Heading Eden
    •Henri Lloyd - Retired - Rudder Damage - Heading Hobart
    •Luna Sea - Retired - Rudder Damage
    •Patrice - Retired - Minor Hull Damage - Heading Orford
    •Wedgetail - Retired- Dismasted
     
  13. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Your post was easily read as implying that Tom understated the DSS advantage in order to ensure that the handicappers did not "get too frisky"; that is, he was being dishonest in order to avoid the boat being rated fairly. It's not a "strange little world" to object when someone one used to know is accused (without evidence) of giving misleading figures.

    And given what Tom does and how well he does it, the logical belief is that the 3% is probably much more accurate overall than just pulling out a nebulous 7%.
     
  14. IOR
    Joined: Jun 2013
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    IOR Junior Member

    Clap your hands for the essential Farr-penned Cookson 50 Design...
    successful for more than 7 years (just remember "Chieftain" at the Trans-Atlantic Races and Sydney Hobart 2007).
    Now same procedure:
    http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/the-yachts/2013/victoire/
    Just a production boat that beats the billion dollar graves supermaxis by handicap.
     

  15. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member


    In the Media Yes unless the Sports writer is a racing yachting person himself. Probably not the fault of the Papers just guessing they print what is sent to them by the race media department and then edited by the paper for the available space they think it is worthy of on the day in the sports pages section.

    To days 2 main papers in NZ not front page news, because the big news is the Investigation into the KIWI league team accused off mixing energy drinks with prescription drugs on their latest tour which it is claimed to be legal within the rules and taking sleeping pills to get there sleep in between games drained their performance against the Aussies which they lost big time.

    SH Wild Oats - 70 % Photo, a few lines re Wild Oats taking line honors. No mention a disaster on Handicap or the any thing about the other boats. Placement on the last inside page thrown amongst the days cricket results and horse racing results.

    No attempt to go to the website and the standings by the sports writer to add additional race information to make it interesting and where the real sailing fraternity, following and what the competitors value / rate more highly the handicap cup.

    Photo large close up.

    Chased along CT 249 so called appraisal on international recognition. Two links Not available - page cannot be found, ONE link url refers to a link in page 9 in the sports section.

    Another link was a short script before the start referring to it, the SH, in general terms.


    Amazingly at the moment the Bruce Farr design Kiwi built Cookson 50 with a Canting keel standing on 1st place in every handicap division with no go fast tech. But the handicap system is not the new more accurate and fairer handicap System, the ISAF ORC VPP.

    Beau Geste 5 th on line -----7th Handicap. Gavin Brady / despite being navigated into a hole.
    Wild oats IRC 39
    Perpetual IRC 42
    Ragamuffin IRC 60
    Giacomo 6 th on line ----- 31 st Handicap.

    OC
     
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