Sydney-Hobart 2012

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Back to the J boats of old but now the muscle is courtesy of Rudolf Diesel and much lighter than the necessary paid crew.
     

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  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =============================
    Gary, equating me in any way whatsoever with a "tea party-ist" is a low blow.
    Saying that Wild Oats XI, Volvo 70's ,Open60's and others are "cheating" is just absurd and a trully nutty thing to say. Especially considering that your "purist" examples are half the size of Wild Oats XI.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Sh ---

    I'd like to see Banque Populaire V race. That would give an idea of real speed.
    I'd like to see a 100' DSS equipped race boat with a small fixed keel(minimum required for self righting) and very fast on-deck movable ballast extending to windward 20'.
    ----
    The World Speed Sailing Record Council has a category that I agree with: "Powered Systems". They don't try to denigrate a great racing sailboat like Wild Oats XI with cheap, baseless shots like "powerboat" or" motor sailer". You can call Wild Oats XI anything you want but some of the comments reflect more poorly on the commenter than on the fastest sailboat in Sydney-Hobart race history.
     
  4. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    So calling it a stink boat would be over the top ?
     
  5. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    It would be since they increased the length.

    And if they increase the size again by 30% there will be some billionaire who will eventually on a perfect run make WOXI look like a turtle in treacle.

    There are no amazing advances on that boat it's all old hat now. very few people can afford to build so big and refine the structural weight and the drag to the extent that Mr Oatly has been able to fund.

    How well do you think they would have done if they had been sailing an average sized boat within the fleet even with all the refinements and modern materials? The only reason they win on handicap is because they sail a different race weather wise. Powered systems let that happen because the loads are so high they cannot otherwise control the boat. How is that fair ?
     
  6. neris
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    neris Junior Member

    Does the owner of wild oats actually sail/sail on the boat? From the pics n vids it looked like he just showed up in hobart. If he doesnt i have to ask why some one would pay so much just to watch their name win a trophy or line honours record
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ========
    I guess thats why there are so many classes and why the Tattersalls Cup is rarely won by a line honors boat. Seems fair to me.
     
  8. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    It's done already

    I'd say Banque Populaire V already does that.
     
  9. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Translation: You like boats like WOXI and are going to great lengths to avoid acknowledging that these things can't go anywhere without an engine running.

    I've asked this before but never seem to get an answer:

    Can boats like WOXI sail on any or all points of sail in a F5 wind without their engine running?

    It's a pretty simple question. Not presenting an answer is revealing.

    Reclassifying these as power assisted sailboats seems eminently sensible. That's what they are. The fact that they don't use their engine directly for propulsion is what you're hiding behind.

    A motorboat can't go anywhere without having its engine running.

    WOXI can't go anywhere with its engine running.

    A difference that makes no difference is no difference - except to people who want to deny the obvious.

    PDW
     
  10. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    First across the line is the winner to the press here. And that's what the giant boats are looking for but they can have an unfair advantage on the handicap, at least it seems to me that the handicap system is subverted because it cannot compensate for this weather factor.
    If there is an idyllic weather pattern for the dash in the super sized sailboat you have a very good chance of taking all the prizes because it's an uneven contest. Boats like WOXI that are too large and powerful to sail without engines can more successfully weather route for an optimal track.

    Ditto for the next up sized boat that might be allowed. It's the fastest boats with the best weather routing that will get the best benefit. It's not about fair competition.

    Once you allow engines there is no size limit except that set by the race organiser and one of the biggest will always take line honors, and given a good weather window followed by more adverse weather will inevitably take the handicap too.
     
  11. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Nah - he isnt allowed on his own boat, too old and frail.

    As I said - all an ego trip. Fancy having a boat so 'competitive' that you cant have a drive yourself. All the crew are semi-professional, like the Americas Cup crews.

    Talk about losing the spirit of sailing - where you take on the challenge personally.
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Typical boat design forum stuff - abusive personal remarks against individuals who are not here to defend themselves.

    For a start, you are incorrect - Sandy (who sails aboard) now owns half the boat. So what do you expect to happen? Do you want only half the boat to do the Hobart? Or do you want one half-owner to forbid the boat to go to Hobart because he cannot go himself?

    Yes, Bob is old - so are you saying that because he is too old to enjoy the race himself, he should leave the boat mouldering in the dock?

    Are you saying that because he is too old to enjoy the race himself, the crew who have sailed with him in earlier years should not be able to compete in the race?

    I understand that Bob sails other races on the boat. Rewarding your crew by allowing them to race your boat when you cannot is quite normal in the offshore racing world; dunno about the place you apparently live where such generosity is apparently unknown.

    Bob is very well like by his former crew. For example, he basically offered the Farr 43 Wild Oats to the stalwarts in the team at a super-low price because he loved the boat, wanted to see it still sailing, and wanted to give them the chance to own a boat that they could not normally afford.

    I'm not sure how many of the crew are "pros"; apparently the skipper is not. Last time I raced one of the Oatleys, we were on the cheapest class afloat and he treated his borrowed gear with respect; he's always been a very well-mannered person.

    Your abusive, insulting and incorrect post may say about you than about Bob Oatley.
     
  13. Grey Ghost
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    Grey Ghost Senior Member

    Try adding some emoticons so we know when you're joking Mr. Watson ;)
     
  14. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    If you don't even know about the supermaxi generators then how do you know they don't race?

    That is complete rubbish. Boats like WOXI and Loyal are going flat stick all the way to Hobart, even when hundreds of miles from spectators.

    If you'd ever sailed with Syd, for example, you'd know that there was no way that he would be "parading". Cape is a Volvo-winning navigator - why would be "parading". A typical crew like Larry J from Ragaloyal has won multiple Hobarts earlier and is very much a racer, NOT a "parader".

    Such a pity that a forum about boat design is so often used more for snarky remarks about the motivation of fellow sailors.
     

  15. CT 249
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    CT 249 Senior Member

    If you don't even know about the supermaxi generators then how do you know they don't race?

    Boats like WOXI and Loyal are going flat stick all the way to Hobart, even when hundreds of miles from spectators. If you'd ever sailed with Syd, for example, you'd know that there was no way that he would be "parading". Cape is a Volvo-winning navigator - why would be "parading"? A typical supermaxi crew like Larry J from Ragaloyal has won multiple Hobarts earlier and is very much a racer, NOT a "parader".

    Such a pity that a forum about boat design is so often used more for snarky remarks about the motivation of fellow sailors.
     
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