Swain BS_36 Stability curve

Discussion in 'Stability' started by junk2lee, Mar 9, 2011.

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  1. Jack Hickson
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: Vancouver Island BC

    Jack Hickson New Member

    I don't think it's possible for any boat with major design problems, to sail as many miles, in all conditions ,as these boats have over 30 years, without major design problems showing themselves, quite early on.
    ABS recognizes such a flawless tack record as being every bit as valid as any paper calculations, in proving a boats seaworthiness.
    How many have been lost at sea, or suffered any structural problems of any kind? Zero!
    Initial stability ?: Sail along side one on a windy day, and compare angle of heel with other boats of the same size. No noticeable difference.
    How many have capsized? Zero!
     
  2. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Well Brent.. I've done the same with rowing boats last 40yrs (thou not long legs) and never capsized or flooded and never had pfd either but I'm not advicing others do the same..
    Someone else crossed oceans with logs and grass too, have you ever heard of him ;)
     
  3. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Fact: The design doesn't comply. You're back arguing that it doesn't have to comply. I/we understand that.

    Well, I'm ambivalent here. There have been a number built as Brent says and most (I hesitate to say all) do seem to be still afloat and sailing. It's pretty obvious that there is a lot of room for improvement and a number of people have offered to help here. I came close to building one and if Brent wasn't so pig-headed and determined to be right even when he's obviously not, sometime in the future I may still build something similar. There are other origami designs available of course.

    I'm retired. I hold 3 degrees in science/IT including 2 postgrad ones, none of the least relevance to naval architecture as I've made clear on a number of occasions. These days I just consult, get money from various IP I hold and spend it again on boat building. I'm building a boat someone else designed because I know my limitations. I got to go to sea and get paid for it for a big chunk of my working life and enjoyed every bit of it. Well, nearly every bit, I could have done without some of the robust weather.

    PDW
     
  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Seems everyone is at it now, how difficult can it be... :p
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12994695

    "A grandfather from London and his three-man crew have successfully crossed the Atlantic on a raft made of pipes after 66 days at sea...."
     
  5. HReeve
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    HReeve Junior Member


    Really? Care to provide a Rule cite?
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    Hello Mr Wiley
    Well said that.
    I build yachts, some have said beautiful ones
    But I do not design em . I leave that to people who trained in such or highly talented who did not necessarily train as N.A , but seem to get it right. There are many here. Elliot, Whiting, Farr and Holland Mummery Wagstaff Spencer(Infidel, Buccaneer)were not as I recall trained in NA.
     
  7. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    abcdy xyz
    I know you are a hands on guy, do not ask how I know
    but to all of you, trust this man
    who cares abt spellin, lets wotch them sails, or sales?
    Strange how people ask a question, get belligerent, get answered them retreat avec silence
    Angel you put me down, albeit in a tiny way, Teddy followed up, backing you
    Then upon my answer , silence, deafening
    Is this the way for adults to behave?
     
  8. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Lessee here..."I, abcdefg, have a degree and I'm a professional, and I once designed and built a boat. But I reserve the right to keep the details secret that might indicate I'm not talking out of my butt...."

    Sure... no problem. I, troy2000, happen to be a world-renowned authority with degrees and experience out the wazoo, but I too reserve the right to keep the crass details of my credentials and accomplishments secret from the hoi polloi. Since my secret qualifications prove I'm an expert, y'all need to just shut up and take my word for it on all this stuff.:p:p
     
  9. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    Troy
    some folk here have taken great delight in making malicious and quite false claims on this site, which when one searches a name entity, on thje www comes up as just that, , scurrulous lies
    So , some people ,myself included have chosen to contribute , sans Nom
    These people who can, with impunity, spread lies here, can do a lot of damage.
    Some have come here, as novices, way back, say 04 and become (experts) in here
    So please do not judge:) have a great day Man
     
  10. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Sorry, Dean. But if someone claims to be speaking from a position of authority, he needs to show us his credentials. "I'm an anonymous expert" doesn't cut it.
     
  11. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Dean, you seems a nice person, but seems like you a bit touche on some issues.;)

    Your quote above is in conflict to what you are defending on this thread and I assume others in general.
    This very thread is based on the false claims made in post #1 and can do a lot of damage, especially to the novice who would know not better and trust his life (and perhaps family too) believing he has a boat that conforms to the claims made.
    This boat and designer has a long history with members and I suggest you read the links supplied in post #208 to get a better background of why feelings may ran wild when discussing these.
    Most of us try to contribute positively but sometimes remarks call for some banter, humor or stern words when one's intelligence is insulted......

    Nothing wrong for asking credentials and should posters feel to stay anonymous, its his/their caveat, but then must accept the doubt and suspicion that will be associated with such posters. Nothing wrong with some jesting like Troy did - put a smile on my dial :p

    Since you mention novices - since 2004 - that are experts now and Im from class 04; ****, my cover is blown:eek:
    Sorry to all, I never built a boat in my life, all my replies in the past were taken from Wikipedia and Wiki-leaks. My webpage is just one big illusion that will put David Copperfield to shame:D:D:D
     
  12. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Complete crap! Brent made the mistake of attempting to bully members, here, as he does elsewhere, and of slagging any/everyone who questioned his beliefs. His knowledge of design, metallurgy, fabrication, and welding is, obviously, minimal. In comparison to Mummery, Farr, etc., Brent has not served any form of apprenticeship with any designer, so to attempt to place him in such lofty company is nonsensical.

    If you have followed the threads, then you will note that each of us have shared our background, with few exceptions. Perhaps, you prefer focusing on red-herring issues to the issue at hand? What does Tad's stability curve tell you about the "design"? If you read through posts on the origamiboats site, you'll find references to the boats being quite tender, posted by owners of the boats, not myself or "plan to build some day" members.

    So, what I'm suggesting to you is to focus on the message, not the messenger, and point out where you feel the message is incorrect.
    Mike
     
  13. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    Whatever you say Mike
    crap does not fit into my language at all
    For what it is worth I think the bs boats are not worth a zippo lighter
    Lots of anger in here Have a neat day
     
  14. abcdefg
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    abcdefg Junior Member

    Cheers Dean. your words are appreciated.

    My user name should suggest to anybody that I don't wish to be publicly outed here. There seems to be a vein of thought that rep points and post counts somehow extrapolate to knowledge and experience. If that is how it is then I guess I am pretty much worthless. Thats ok though, as none of these people pay my bills or rely on my knowledge for their projects.

    I was asked my experience, and gave a very understated summary of what I have done. If people don't wish to believe then that is up to them.

    As to the thread at hand, I asked a question and gave an opinion on why a specific standard was should not be used to condem this particular design, and the result was a disproven arguement about standards intepretation/application in my country, followed by name calling and spell checks. Brilliant work people.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011

  15. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    While that's true, the ISO sailing vessel standard is a standard (some would say a lenient standard) against which any vessel may be judged. It would appear that the ISO standard (at least this portion of the requirement, dynamic stability factor) favors wide beam boats with high initial (low angle) stability and doesn't worry too much about the ultimate AVS? I understand that the ISO standard was developed around existing market trends (fat boats) and is not intended for relatively narrow beamed heavy displacement vessels....so what standard should the buying public be judging their choices against? No standard? The Brent Swain "none have capsized" standard?
     
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