Surtees Centre Pod Cat

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by redreuben, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Isn't it funny how those on this forum who never design anything never build anything, never do anything, know so much about how someone else should A) design something and B) build it and before it hits the designed use stage of which Len will fully detail for sure everyone knows how that should be also....
    This guy has designed a boat...
    He has backed himself with the build of the first one in a relatively public manner (without making any from what I have seen) grand outlandish statements other than it should float should sail ok and will trailer easily.
    He is now posting the progress shots...
    Give credit where credit is due people, presently there are few like Len who just do the business....
    Most now days expect clients to listen to a load of drivel on their web sites or in forums and purchase what are often incomplete plans from pretty boy 3d images....
    People if all you can do is knock Len for what he is doing suggest you all get a life...
    For those who are genuinely watching and asking questions while awaiting progress well done as surely isn't that what these forums are for not a heap of crap hijacking like so often happens on here.... what is a sometimes great forum is often not just from hijackers....
     
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  2. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    redreuben redreuben

    Hear hear, well said, i wasn't going to be so subtle so thank you !
     
  3. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    here she is http://vimeo.com/31111919, no trailer pics(although you could see the trailer only in my yard on google map/satelight), but the trailer(empty) was stored in my yard after the new owner bought the boat only, there's bare head room in the main hull say 1.75 + clearance on the axle, say .3 & the float hulls on their sides over the cabin top say .6 so maybe 2.65m high & the about 15m mast down the middle. If you where worried you can water ballast the trailer with plastic drums- this is common on trailerable billboards here. Regards from Jeff.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
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  4. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Jeff,

    Thats a great looking boat. Still wouldn't want the the amas waving in the wind. Texas has occasional very quick, very high speed storms. My Tornado was flipped in my back yard while it was staked down. It took 1 minute of wind to turn it into trash. By the way, the stakes broke in the middle, the rest of the stake was still in the ground - it didn't pull out. Thanks for the picture. You got my attention with the 15M mast being trailered, mine was only ~10M and I thought that was big.

    Out side the Box - OK you're comment about those who do nothing crapping on others designs has some validity. I'm ready to see the results and will shut up until I do. Unfortunately, most often the launch pictures are all that are provided. You're close (relatively) - will you go do an unbiased test/ review?

    Marc
     
  5. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Auz is a bit far for a trip for the Forum.... I am sure Auz Multihull World and Cruising Helmsman Magazines will do reviews... Cruising Helmsman tend to be more unbiased....
    JFWIW
    If you have concerns that you think it might blow over like the Tornado did why not direct to the designer via his contacts section on the web page how he has made provision for such a problem in the design, you might just help him with the development of the design as it is a very valid case for any trailerable...
    Len would perhaps welcome the chance to improve what it would seem he has already done quite a good job on.....
     
  6. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    redreuben redreuben

    I think upchurchmr is justified to question the trailering set up, I would be worried ! And yet look at this Woods Sango, granted the hulls go under rather than over, this puts the pod up high with all associated cruising accruements combined with what looks like a rather narrow track on the trailer and it looks dangerous yet the Woods boat has been trailered across Europe ?
    RR

    http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/studyplans website/Sango/trail1.htm
     
  7. catsketcher
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Centre of gravity is the thing

    Maybe putting the pod low is clever for trailering. If you put all your boat junk in the pod then it will lower the centre of gravity. Looking at the boat I would guess that the hulls are about the same as the pod in weight. So the CG would be above or at the top of the pod.

    In a Wizard you could still fill the hulls with stuff for trailering and then you have a pod up high. If the pod weights the same as the hulls then Richards method would give a lower CG - 2 hulls versus one pod. The beams come into it as well.

    The interesting thing for me about this design is the need for double bolting on the beams. In Richard's and Farriers folding designs the typical rig and sailing loads act to hold the boat in its sailing configuration. The bolts can work lose and in most seas and conditions you would not know. Bolt failure would not be an issue. With Len Surtee's design the sailing loads act to fold the boat up. I am sure that there is a clever way of dealing with this but I would be interested in knowing more about this. Of course there are many examples of this type of lightweight structure being well designed - WW2 fighter planes flown off aircraft carriers are an obvious example - they always folded upwards.

    One good thing about this method is that the need for a deep ramp is avoided - Richard can get around this but it seems easy to get the boat low in this design.

    cheers

    Phil Thompson
     
  8. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Some great points Phil,

    the trailer weight has to be considered too for cg /height once the vessel is well strapped to it. Many boats rely on bolts- even this http://vimeo.com/31111919 as was, the main hull hung on bolts off the cross beams.
    Phil, while we're looking at folding multis could you post a pic or two of yours as I don't know how it goes together- maybe to a new thread if it's gunna drift this one.
    Great discussion, this is one of the toughest tasks to simplify I reckon.
    All the best from Jeff.
     
  9. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Gentlemen,

    Let me say that I believe most people would get by with the Amas up. The specific conditions I saw twice might never be seen again (or not often). You just have to decide the risks you are willing to take. Or if you even think it is a risk.

    So my comments were just personal preference/ experience.

    One other comment. Aircraft use bolts almost exclusively in highly loaded joints (like holding on the amas/ akas) because it is relatively easy to make a safe design. Most boat guys want to get by with less than what is required to be "guaranteed" since it seems heavy. What most of us don't know is just what the loads on the bolts will be over the life of the boat so that we can get the right size.

    Hope this wasn't thread drift, since we weren't talking about "drift" boats.

    Marc
     
  10. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Bat Cat

    Len asked me to post this and I expect he will join the forum soon:

    Hi Doug

    Had a quick look at the boat forum this morning, i see some negative remarks, most unfounded !! It is definately a cat even when loaded the center pod will clear the water while at rest, granted it will be slapped whilst underway but the V shape will minimise this.

    A critical safety feature is if a sudden strong gust hits beam on and is strong enough to capsize the cat, then the center coard will become clear of the water and then allow the cat to slide sideways, as there is no lateral resistance, possibly saving the capsize. This is not possible in a conventional dagger board hull combination as the board is locked in allowing the hull to be rotated around it. I have designed a conservative sail area ( the light air sail that furls on a prodder attatched to the center pod is not shown on the study plans) and the cat is desighned to be sailed with very little heel, im not for sailing on one hull.

    Perhaps some should hold there remarks till they see the completed boat with folding deck pannels and saftey nets cliped onto appropriate areas .

    The cockpit seats 4 people comfortably ( 5 in a squeeze) which is plenty big for a 3 person boat !!

    Recently we had very strong winds that my neighbour said nearly blew the house away, im pleased to report that the 9m folding cat sitting on the trailer in front of my house didnt move an inch !!

    Anyway am busy preparing for sea trials on 10th november

    Doug please post this on the forum, thanks.

    best regards
    len surtees
     
  11. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Well said Len
    Hope all goes well with the sea trials.
     
  12. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Any updates re sea trials on the 10th from Len Doug??
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Not yet.....
     
  14. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    5 days Doug no news fron Len still??
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ----
    None..... But I'm sure you know what its like with a first launching and sail-they're almost always little nagging problems that conspire to delay things.
     
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