Surface Propulsion, long-tail-emprovements.

Discussion in 'Surface Drives' started by tom kane, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    I really dread getting sucked into this... I really do. It's depressing.

    Tom, you need to show drawings or clear, unmistakable images of this
    that
    I don't know that I've ever seen anything like this. Maybe I just don't understand what you're saying. Please clarify with drawings.
     
  2. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    Yes we all know you can have a jackable outboard.
    So the inboard system has yet to be invented?
     
  3. tom kane
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    Location: Hamilton.New Zealand.

    tom kane Senior Member

    Surface Propulsion,long-tail-emprovements

    I can see this thread has got some folk really excited and maybe putting their innovative hats on.
    If you want something to work the way you want it to work you will have to make it your self (in a couple of days) from the many available components that abound today that can be used to make a stern drive that can steer a boat and be moved up and down for launching or protect the drive from grounding and can also be run in subsurface mode or surface piercing mode.

    The components are already available so you can not Patent or invent that part of such a drive. You may be able to get design protection.
    But you can build such a drive for yourself but if you wanted to market it you would need to check to see if you are not infringing an existing Patent.
    If you had big money to develop and market the drive and educate the boating public and promote it you should do very well
     
  4. tom kane
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    tom kane Senior Member

    Courage SamSam keep trying you will work it out eventually.
     
  5. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    There is nothing like this that is used by many millions of people. Your Cam Drive and longtail drives might remain approximately horizontal to the water surface, but that is all, and it is not what you claim.

    If this is in reference to your cam drive system or longtail drives, it's kind of insulting that you keep on keeping on about it. Innovative hats are not needed, the concept is dirt simple as are the mechanics involved. I don't think anyone really wants to, as there doesn't seem to be much advantage of them compared to an outboard. What advantages there might be are outweighed by the disadvantages.

    It's not an important point or a big deal, the claim of remain horizontal to the water surface, but the cat and mouse evasive arguments you employ to back up your various claims is annoying, especially since you can't, don't or won't offer any proof. That is why it's not an enjoyable experience getting involved in these discussions.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. tom kane
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Hamilton.New Zealand.

    tom kane Senior Member

    SamSam the proof of the popularity and practicability of a retractable drive used by millions and trying to be improved by millions are there to see I don`t think I have to prove anything.
    As a prudent investor I always do market research to see how a product would make out if I invested heavily in any product.

    If we build you a drive where the prop shaft is parallel to the water as some demand you will not be happy with that either as you will want to trim the prop angle up or down to trim the bows up or down so we need a jack able,trim able,steerable, retractable drive.

    That is not in the "to hard basket" with the wonderful tools we have now.
    I don`t need or use plans because I build myself and the components are already made it is just a matter of assembling them like a Mecano set. No need for computer software and trying to explain to others what is needed. There are many advantages to retractable shaft drives.
    From the thread "why don`t we mount lower units to the bottoms of boats.

    Mr Efficiency
    There are a host of reasons, mainly involving grounding, trailing, ability to clear fouled props, ability to adjust the drive angle etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2016
  7. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I see the problem here. The vast majority of English speaking people and the English language dictionaries they use, take 'horizontal to the water' to be the same as 'parallel to the water'.

    So when you say
    and then say
    it indicates you don't follow along with the vast majority of English speaking people who take 'remaining horizontal to the water' to be the same as 'to be parallel to the water'.

    It was all a case of misinterpretation, because in the end you agree with us that a drive shaft that remains horizontal, or parallel, to the water is not practical or even exists, and is most certainly not used by many millions of people all around us.

    This all makes me appreciative of the many who post here from foreign countries who can barely understand English and how quickly they can grasp the essence of a discussion. It must be very difficult.

    .
     
  8. OCB
    Joined: Dec 2015
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    OCB Junior Member

    Prop shaft that moves up and down will have the ultimate

    I wanted to start my own tread but i see value in some of the input here. I have a new joint that will do this. I want to start testing.
    I'm willing to collaborate with the right person or company that will sign a N.D.A.

    PM me if your interested
     
  9. tom kane
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Hamilton.New Zealand.

    tom kane Senior Member

    I don`t see why some people keep on worrying about keeping a prop shaft parallel or horizontal to the water flow when in most instances of practical use a prop shaft may be at angle because of need to trim or because the plane angle puts the prop shaft at some angle to the water flow.
    I defy anyone to come up with a method to even calculate efficiency of props at small differences of shaft angles, its all in the mind of appearances and symmetry

    Fixed shaft drives all work well in forward and reverse.
    Long tail drives work well at at an angle.
    Outboard motors will mostly work at some angle and not always horizontal to the water and so will I/O`s.
    With a retractable shaft drive or trim able surface drive you have a choice of horizontal or set at an angle and they work well.

    I will PM you OCB and am happy to discuss drives with anyone privately as I have never yet found any Engineer that can hold a sensible mechanical discussion with out getting upset about something, they all throw wobbly at some stage when it gets beyond their experiences and they see something they don`t understand.
     

  10. Brad T. Miller
    Joined: Jan 2018
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    Location: Santa Barbara, CA USA

    Brad T. Miller New Member

    Thai style:
     
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