Superior Surface Effects Technologies, take the industry into its future

Discussion in 'Press Releases' started by AmnonMikeCohen, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 4,127
    Likes: 148, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2043
    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    (For reference, Amnon's other thread on the same topic is http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=183287#post183287 )

    Amnon,

    You have received several pieces of good advice here.

    I applaud you for not selling out to the US military. Many good inventions have mysteriously vanished into that gaping maw. I do know people at the NRC Institute for Ocean Technology (they haven't used the IMD acronym for years) and I know that they are damned good engineers, so their opinion does count for something.

    Now, I will try to explain why you are getting the reactions you are from this crowd.

    Try to look at it from the perspective of the more experienced folks on here. Many are sailors and designers. All have seen hundreds of new innovations. And all have seen people come on here with amazing claims, only to discover after a few days of debate that the "inventor" is either clueless, plagiarizing, or a simple snake-oil salesman. So they are skeptical of fanciful claims, at least until there is some backing for them.

    Take a look through the archives for a thread on the Yellowfin surface drive. It took quite a while to persuade the forum regulars, myself included, that it had been thought through enough to work. It took them a few stabs at a business plan and publicity materials before they started to drum up enough investor interest to make a serious case. You will face the same dilemma, both here and in the venture capital boardrooms.

    Presentation is a huge part of business. Your ideals of changing the industry philosophy are interesting, but will not get you anywhere in the capitalist world. Money is always the upper hand. They have it, you want it. Therefore you must prove to them that you can make this work. Part of that is coming across like you know what you're talking about. You probably do, at the mathematical / design level. At the grammar, spelling and web design level, you do not come across very well. You need to clean up- make your webpage legible, have someone more fluent in English cross-check your grammar, and have independent test data and reports ready to substantiate your claims. If you have such reports, you should post PDFs of them on your site for potential investors and collaborators to review. Without independent reports and tests- and claims that you have independent reports and tests are worthless without the documents themselves- you won't get far in this market.

    I hope you'll take some of the advice you've received from the various folks who have responded on here. You may have something good; if you do, now's your chance to prove it and sell it.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. AmnonMikeCohen
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: -26
    Location: Crofton BC Canada & Hertzeliyah Israel

    AmnonMikeCohen Inventor

    Your point is where I am short of ability to serve the vast market I wish to serve

    :!: This is the real sad part that I and my mariner clients are facing, as I have already more the 75 orders and had to ask people to be as patient as I have to be; because I have not yet found the proper business partner(s) or investor(s) in this project, so that I can protect the clients as well as the technology's ownership, with the needed corporate financial security.

    At the same time, I have product already in stock, and can help supplying most small boats orders - PWC and up to 16 feet long boats - and can afford to order new product production for orders on boats up to 40 feet as well as larger ones - but unfortunately I can not yet jump into the water without the needed proper business life-jacket on and in place.

    Your simple question challenge, is the real problem inventors face while alone in the world of business - even ones with more money then I have, ones who have good economic solutions for the industry - yet the ironic part, is that I need relatively small capital to secure this market ready project.
     
  3. Lin Olen
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 69
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: Wooli, Australia, 2462

    Lin Olen Junior Member

    Hello AMCohen.

    When I was just a kid a British firm was injecting polyestyrene oxide from nozzles at the underwater bow of a tug and getting an extraordinay increase in speed, I believe something like 20%. Did not proceed because of contamination concerns. Cheers.
     
  4. AmnonMikeCohen
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: -26
    Location: Crofton BC Canada & Hertzeliyah Israel

    AmnonMikeCohen Inventor

    Thank you Matt for advice I agree with - but

    I have, for many years, held on to values which are good for business, as I was very successful in honest business - but the world is not as wise and honest as it used to be, and greed plus envy are now more key factors in business - and I do not seek money from people who just have access to access of money - as my project needs relatively small amount of money as it will make us a lots of new money. But money is not what I am after, I am after leaving a technology for people to employ and benefit from, so I do not die with my privileged knowledge and be the only one who knew how to fly on water, and did so while am alive.

    The skeptics do have the full rights to be so, as we see more false promises and less delivered goods in a morally eroding business world, but this does not change the truths I represent, and where trust was/is lost, it is their loss and it is not up for me to mend and remedy others' wrongs - I am only responsible for my words, actions and promises as well as deliveries of truth, goods and services.

    So back to the invention and challenges I am facing.
    I have already put my website in another location, and will have a link to it, from the new website I shall put up as soon as I have the time to finish it; as this advice is sound and reasonable expectation I have received from many of the readers I agree with; and as I see, most websites these days do not give as much informatio as we used to do a decade ago when my website was created. I also see that the www is changing into a social networking and advertising bonanzas and everything we were hoping it will not develop into, as business people and corporations were/are hoping it to be.

    However, due to the nature of this industry's being bigger on piracy and reversed engineering plus ignoring new products and services, I shall have to keep my trade secrets and confidential information - reserved for the potential owners of the invention first of all, and only afterwards, we can share it with the world of sailors and designers and mariners who like to know or purchase our goods, products and services.

    I shall keep looking for the capital needed first, or simply be lost in this ocean of distrust and never succeed to help the industry grow in the direction I can help it grow, and someone may be able to come up with something good and new from the waves I have made in my efforts - without any actual losses to me beyond my goodwill investments in time and money for developing new valued knowhow - which is not simple to copy or reproduce without my gifted inside knowhow,resulted from very private and secret development that no one has access to or can reproduce, including my kids and wife who know some of the secrets of the design and its nature - the mother of invention.

    If you have not read all my other writing, it is about the fact that money does not grow without a profitable project, and I am not competing for money to be invested in my project - I am only letting investors and partners drive by a marine market opportunity they may be invited to invest and grow with.

    Please keep me posted, and I do respect and thank you for your honest and helpful advice, which I am following, as there are members of this group who care to help and have done so already, and we are not alone in this good service website for boat design information sharing.
     
  5. AmnonMikeCohen
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: -26
    Location: Crofton BC Canada & Hertzeliyah Israel

    AmnonMikeCohen Inventor

    Yes, this is one of the other options of extra lubrication, and as you know, it was not and is not ecological and now we are more concern about ecology, and why my proposed injected layers including air into the water, is a better option for the environment, without my explaining yet the benefits of my proposed additional lubrication layers to enrich the marine environment.
     
  6. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The usual method of pulling investors is an actual demonstration of the items "superiority".
    .
    Build something and go win a race, or do a stunt , 500 miles on 50gal of fuel at 20K or similar.

    FF
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 116, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    We have no concrete idea what Mr Cohen has so discussing it is all speculation. There have been many applications of devices called "speed rails", Wave collectors" etc that seem to be intended to do what he claims. The wave collector goes back well over 50 years. Some boats now come with chine rails extending below the hull.

    Fred has the best idea. A public demonstration, well publicized, should help get it out there in front of interested investors and buyers. The Wright brothers tried to go the route Mr Cohen seems to be following and it did not work for them.
     
  8. AmnonMikeCohen
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: -26
    Location: Crofton BC Canada & Hertzeliyah Israel

    AmnonMikeCohen Inventor

    "Fast Fred" & "Tom Lathrop" are both right

    You are now more on target as to where and what I am hoping will be implemented as part of the project, but only after there is a partner, like a Shipyard or a boats Manufacturer and or A Major Client or A Major Vendor, Designer or Investor and such partner(s) who can help secure the business part of the technology and be in position to gain from such investment in a partnership I am offering.

    Patent laws and the business risks in this industry, are governing the proper way for new technologies to be introduced, and my business-strategy-plan is customized specifically for this more risky industry and its skeptical long term slow growth characteristics.
    Key parts of the plan are to show and tell and advertise and taking leadership plus maintaining technological leadership by continuously releasing more of the knowhow already developed, but the first steps of this baby is to have a father-of-invention who will help the mother-of-invention (me) raise my brainchild in a secured way - so that our vast clients' base is secured from others who will also offer the same product and service after we show and tell and sell our first half a million worth of products and services.

    So you are both right, as to your observations from understanding the industry and its challenges to new innovation and real new inventions.

    As to The Technology discussions we are here for first, there were limitations to the Speed-Rails and the way they were claiming false results, and the manufacturers do know about the positive effect of a FIN at the aft and have been developing better Spray-Rails for few years already - and as to Air-Cavities which have leakage problems, they have developed and published more new solutions; so altogether, we know there is some good benefits in both ways of thinking, but as I see, my invention (Developed between 1974-1989 and initially registered for patent in 1991 but never published yet so to retain my first to invent and first to file and first not to publish) is still offering what the industry hope to be developed by 2015, and is yet the leading technology I still have to develop into the new science it represents - so please respect that I must keep protecting my future business partners and clients we shall work with, when we can show and tell the world what has not yet been seen.
    At the same time, as you may already see, I am running the risk that someone with more financial resources, insight or knowhow, or stronger ego, will jump forward with a solution as good or better then mine, and by then, my secrets may be no more trade secrets, and I shall have to put aside my hope for helping the industry and mariners Fly and Surf on open water - in a boat and ship and not in a seaplane or airship.

    Please note: I am about to simplify my humble private website, for readership like we have here, so it does not look too buzzy and is more focused on sharing information on the technological opportunity's benefits to the industry, with some information on the people needed to be involved in successful implementation of a beneficial project to it owners and clients.
     
  9. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,474
    Likes: 116, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1728
    Location: Oriental, NC

    tom28571 Senior Member

    Amnon,

    Best of good fortune to you and I'm sure all here wish you luck in finding the financial backing you need. Our comments are most likely a wish for fresh information which is why we keep coming back here. I toy with these ideas all the time and but for money, time or enough chutzpa to just chuck all the things that keep us in line, we might be more innovative ourselves.
     
  10. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 4,127
    Likes: 148, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2043
    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Amnon,

    I do hope we will here more about what you are planning here.

    There is one question that I still don't have a good answer to:
    "What is the product you have invented and are now trying to sell to investors?"

    I have read your discussions of the relative merits of modern venture capitalist philosophy versus the product-driven innovation market, or however you like to describe it. They are interesting, if a bit difficult to follow.

    What I have not read is anything, anything at all, about what the product you are working on actually is. It is described as a "Flexible Power Fin", as an "invented invincible apparatus", a "Surfin", etc. It is described as being a bolt-on addition to virtually any hull, that will "eliminate or reduce the existing resistance forces" (the former being a violation of every law of fluid dynamics), and that will immensely improve performance and make your boat fly.

    I haven't the faintest idea what the thing actually is, what makes it different from the hundreds (actually, more likely thousands) of other fin/keel/skeg products tried over the years, or how you know it will work for so many different types of boats when, as far as I can tell, there are a grand total of three craft in the world that have it: an outboard skiff, a 21' Chris-Craft, and a tank model of something owned by the Navy.

    Let's say I'm a venture capital scout and I come across this product, its website, and the discussions held about it. How will I know what it is, let alone if it has any potential? I'd want numbers to back up the thing's performance, and numbers to back up your claims that you (a) need a truckload of cash to start making it, and (b) will make $25 million in the first ten years selling it.

    Believe me, you don't have to worry about someone stealing your idea if you discuss what it is. You've initiated the patent process (I think, it's a bit unclear)? If anyone wanted to copy it, they'd simply take a tape measure to your Chris-Craft while it's parked on the trailer.

    Please keep this in mind: BDNet is a very open minded forum and is probably the best place on the Net to discuss new marine technologies. When you meet resistance on here, it is because people with far more experience than you or I are not convinced you have done your homework. Do your homework, then ask us what we think of honest, scientific results and a sound business strategy. Believe me, if you do that, you'll find things go a lot better.
     
  11. AmnonMikeCohen
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: -26
    Location: Crofton BC Canada & Hertzeliyah Israel

    AmnonMikeCohen Inventor

    My wisdom is new to the industries of Inventions and Meritime

    Dear Matt and all good members of BDnet:
    It is yet, too early for my showing more then what I show on my website or more then what I am explaining, about my yet leading invention, in the art of "Water Lubrication with secured Air/Gas Cavity".

    A potential partner or investor, does have access to more information then what I can publicly share, by documented direct communication and signed confidentiality agreement and granted demonstration, as part of the process; as well as access to already documented tests and a Tow Tank Study, where all these facts that I am asked to produce are available and are very clearly stated, and also including my Patent application which is on hold, so to keep my full term for issuing a new patent as soon as the capital for the Market Ready Project is in place.

    This is a simple as I can make my case, while sharing the news and opportunity with all who care to know.

    It may be the old way of doing business, but in this industry, it is wise to be ready for all the critics and skeptics as well as reverse engineers and bold pirates - and I must accept these facts, as I have already experienced the way this industry ignores new inventions and hold on to the belief that everything had been already invented and tested (Maybe because we see copies of same old ideas come back, like the Bulbous-Bow which I learned about in the 50s - or the fact that the Office of Naval Research is still holding on to the documents I let them read and will not give the documents back to me as the owner of the knowhow, because I did not accept the not so honest way I was expected to apply for a grant, so that we do a demonstration for the USA Navy)

    Let me share with you what I have done today, which is an indication of what I have been doing for almost a decade.

    I have contacted, respectfully, a world class group who needs my knowhow as they are leading in the art of advanced hulls design, where air-cavity is part of the design; but where their technology has real limitations in relationship to my better knowhow, because they are going about it in a very traditional existing knowhow which is foolish and expensive way to try to achieve what my so much simpler and sleeker as well as much more economic plus profitable way to reach and achieve yet much better results.
    Now, I am not insulting them in my email, I am very warmly inviting them to a WIN WIN WIN opportunity where the Industry also WINS, not only they WIN without me our us, and not only they WIN and my company WINS, as it is in most good business deals.
    Please respect that I am a successful inventor as well as a good businessman, which is not the way it usually is, as more inventors are dreamers and seek respect and do not know about business as it really is - but I have been in the ICI sector of the Real Estate industry, where the big dollars are, and know the business of business, and not only my business.

    Patience, is a virtue I have had to hold for more then 35 years, in my work on this project, so I hope it will pay us all, or my hopes will sink like many other marine hopes may have had to, because the industry sees itself as complete and without any need or hurry for investment into growing faster into the future, something like "Let them suffocate or choke on their ideas or inventions, as we have the money and they do not know the industry well enough to enter as new players" Microsoft has this same mentality of controlling an industry for its exploitation and not delivering what the market wants and needs, resulting with problems we all know about, that they have invented nothing and have a failing DOS based system which is many years old already.

    Not to wonder into the real problems our Maritime industry needs to address, as far as welcoming new partnerships and investments in new advanced technologies, my trust will be rewarding to trust granted to me and the truth in my claims, based on pictures and videos clips I can share, without showing the 'cat out from the bag' but just showing it is alive, so, please trust me it is a cat and a real nice and good one!

    I am truly sorry to disappoint some of the many members, and more so ones like you MATT and GEORGE whom are so much more good members of this membership who are helpful and wise and knowledgeable as well as curious to actually know what it is I seem to hide - but I am not hiding, I am protecting a good part of my life's work, from the people who do not respect it - as the first one proper person who will meet my commitment to this project, in terms which are agreeable to both of us, by way of 1st respect and appreciation, and 2nd by way of keen interest and investment commitment in a tangible way which is best for the owners of the technology, myself and my potential partners I am protecting first, and the whole vast market of mariners who will be installing the proper FINS and not ones made by people who do not know the technology.

    Lets hope I get lucky sooner then later in locating that partner or investor, so the cat can be seen and played with, by all who like what they see or hear about it.

    I stay respectfully and thankfully yours, as a person who will never know English...
     
  12. Lin Olen
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 69
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: Wooli, Australia, 2462

    Lin Olen Junior Member

    Sorry AmnonMike, The more you say the less convincing your argument is to me and I have been very successful in busiess. It is when you manufacture and sell an invention that is extraordinarily successful that the sharks bite. My cottage industry with 18 patents aimed for 10% market share and took40% in the first week of sales. That was when the supply of essential steel was frozen and my $12,000 company atacked by an octopus with unlimited capital. Rather than buy me out they chose to protect an obsolete tool that was inferior in many ways. But good luck anyway! Cheers, Lin/
     
  13. AmnonMikeCohen
    Joined: Feb 2008
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: -26
    Location: Crofton BC Canada & Hertzeliyah Israel

    AmnonMikeCohen Inventor

    Seems like a bad experiance, yet true.

    I have heard many stories about inventors' disappointments, and am not planing to be one myself.
    :confused: I am not sure what you do not like about what I am sharing, as I am not arguing and am only sharing from my wisdom and knowhow with members of this website I think is a very good place to share information on new and old established knowhow.
    :!: I know people and business can be ugly, but they can choose to also be good and very good - a quality which is not as popular in our times, but I am witnessing the real young generation does have such values, and that is good hope for us all.
     
  14. ratrace2
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 543
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 84
    Location: NJ USA

    ratrace2 Senior Member

    I'm going to settle this:

    What is the patent Number? No patent number, you got nothing.
    That is all I want to know.......If you don't have that, all of the pleading rhetoric about "someone here", "important groups there", means nothing
    :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
     

  15. ratrace2
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 543
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 84
    Location: NJ USA

    ratrace2 Senior Member

    Expositiory writing 101: example of empty rhetoric

    Stop! Please. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.