Super Capacitors

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by Doug Lord, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ok
    Ive debated bringing this up as Ive not patented it yet and not sure I even can as the us patent office hates this kind of thing

    I dreamed this thing up about ten years ago and just kinda sat on it

    I realize half you folks will tell me this wont work and Im not positive it will but at the same time it seems like it should

    [​IMG]

    its basically a mechanical battery
    based on magnetic's

    all you need do is hang an conductive coil between the body and the armature and
    electricity
    reverse the polarity and
    a motor

    not sure how long it would run but I think it out to work

    by the way if any light bulbs ( sorry bad pun ) go off in anyones head remember where you found this thing and cut me in for something
    B

    ps
    it has no practical application in boating
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    almost forgot
    I was thinkin this thing would be more of a semi powered storage gyroscope
    its not the power intrinsic to the magnets your actually using but the energy of the rotation of the armature. if it was used in conjunction with a set of solar cells then it could charge the magnets and spin the armature up, the magnets would just keep it there
    good rare earth magnets last forever and are dam powerfull for there size but they will die eventually
    if you compress the two halves together you get a faster armature speed but you also get more resistance between components
    that would kill the magnets
    so the solar cells would connect to a matrix of wires in the magnets and a trickle current keep things oriented properly
    theory is
    or at least what I was hoping is that this would be more efficient than a lead battery
    and a little lighter
    you could vary the speed and the torque of the armature by compressing the two halves

    maybe
    assuming it works

    well I intended it to be part of a system and since I didnt reveal the whole thing it may have been confusing
    the magnetic system on its own will produce a small amount of electricity but at the cost of the magnetism.
    but if ceramic magnets are used them a matrix of wires could be installed during the manufacturing process and used by solar cells to keep the magnetic material "charged" oriented properly for essentially ever.
    the rpm of the system would be maintained in storage mode by the natural magnetism of the system limited only by the max rpm ( centripetal forces vs material strength )
    I wouldn't be trying to increase the magnetic properties of the system components at any time. Just increasing rpm. its the gyroscopic action that does the storing of the electricity and with one moving part on magnetic bearings in a vacuum maintaining friction losses through the use of the magnetic fields
    might not be so hard
    maybe
    as I said
    not sure it works
     
  3. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "I think they're just being really, really careful to make sure their device is performing the way they want it to, and that their patents are in line, before they let anything slip."

    Why bother ? The Chinese simply get the patent on line and copy what ever they damn please.

    FF
     
  4. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Boston, it "seems like this thing should rotate" and your wanting it to rotate don´t make it happen. Debate longer.
     
  5. robherc
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    robherc Designer/Hobbyist

    Actually, Mark...after reading his second post, I agree with him that, if the device were contained in a vacuum, it could be used as a type of "flywheel on a frictionless bearing" for storing mechanical energy that was input at the spindle. Using the polarity repulsion of the magnets would simply to keep it suspended.
    Now, I think he'd have to modify the design a good bit by shrinking the diameter, using North AND South polar repulsion, etc. before he could make it a very useful storage device, but it could be used to store motion energy...similar to those early '90s "magic" floating tops.
     
  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    it does use north and south
    the drawing on the bottom, it should have had a red s on either side of the little spheres that are labeled with just an n on opposite sides
    there is an apposing force ( south ) pushing the sphere into the gap in the field created by the like poles ( north )
    forgot to label that when I drew it

    I didnt really give the thing a lot of thought
    seemed like it was just a magnetically powered gyroscope
    kinda a dc motor/flywheel without a commutator
     
  7. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    CDK retired engineer

    I read today that one John Keogh successfully applied for a patent at the Australian patent office. His invention was generally known as 'the wheel'.
     
  8. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    If this was ever a patentable idea, you've started the clock ticking for obtaing said patent upon your first public disclosure of the device.

    A comment on the device:

    I do not see a mechanism for pole reversal (commutation, alternating current, etc) in this (proposed) device. A motor or generator must have a means by which polarities are flipped during the rotational cycle to be functional. A mechanical switch (commutator) is used in 'universal' motors. Stator poles induce a current in the armature of an induction motor which alternates in opposition to the stator poles. This is what causes an alternating 'difference' in magnetic flux that can either propel the rotor (in a motor) or resist the rotation of the armature (in a generator). What is that mechanism in this device?

    Jimbo
     
  9. robherc
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    robherc Designer/Hobbyist

    Hmmm...way too late on mine then, as I passed diagrams around to several other students in the school however-many years ago....lol patent would have expired by now anywise ;)

    I think he mentioned in his first post that he intended to add a "coil" for power generation & storage...though I would rather lean towards attaching an external generator/motor to the spindle via a clutch. That way you could release the clutch & not suffer drag from the generator when in "storage mode"
     
  10. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    No, a coil still does not address the lack of a pole reversal mechanism. That's a separate issue.

    Jimbo
     
  11. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    think of it as two dipole spheres in a monopole plane

    the spheres poles are on the x axis of the cube they lay within

    so you do have a mechanical if permanent polar moment

    it can be increased by moving the two halves of the cube closer to one another

    there is no need for a commutator

    the next trick is to keep the magnets from realigning ( wearing out ) which can be done with the solar cells applying a slight dc current to the material in the same way it was when the magnets were manufactured

    the coil removes energy
    the proximity of the two halves of the cube apply energy
    the solar cells keep the thing magnetic

    so the sun charges the magnets
    the magnets spin round and round creating an oscillating field
    the coil in the oscillating field lines has an induced current
    the faster the thing spins the more energy is available

    sorry it took me so long to hemorrhage a decent explanation I just havent looked at it in ages
     
  12. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    The way I understand the device, the 'rotor' will have no preference for any particular alignment, therefore no emf will be transmitted to the shaft, therefore no current generated, or no rotation induced. The 'cubes' need to switch polarity within the cycle for the thing to work as a motor or generator.

    And magnets are not charged with a "slight" DC current. Rather they are charged with a low voltage and a very high current. In other words with a very short coil of only a few turns of rather heavy gauge wire.

    Jimbo
     
  13. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    hmmm
    did I mention the cube and the spheres fields are perpendicular to one another

    once a dipole molecule is set in a ceramic matrix it tends to stay put for quite a long time
    and given a slight charge when not being called on to do any work it should resist any realignment

    as I said not sure if it works just something I dreamed up and sat on till this conversation reminded me of it
     
  14. robherc
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    robherc Designer/Hobbyist

    Hmmm...no I don't believe the cube will incite spin on the spheres in your setup. It will, however, keep the spheres & their shaft suspended between halves if you switch one of your poles (i.e. N up on spheres, and bottom half of cube...N down on top half of cube). Then you could utilize your design as a frictionless bearing in a vacuum.
    If you wanted it to spin, you'd have to align unequal numbers of magnets in concentric rings....or use a non-polar ring magnet...but that's another story altogether.
     

  15. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well thats the standard theory of the magnetic motor
    but what if there were a imblanced magnetic field

    what I tried to do was create a monopole environment in which to sail a dipole sail
    so I connected two with a rod on a pivot and sailed em in circles

    I was hoping the south pole would pull the sphere through the field of the cube while the north pole of the sphere pushed

    I remember talking to some of the folks at CU about this thing when I first dreamed it up and there was every range of discussion
    it may or may not work depends on who you talk to


    Roberc
    did you ever build one

    I must not be explaining it very well cause the polarity of the spheres in the field they are set in would not result in a magnetic bearing like arrangement
     
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