Suggestions on home build

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by CutOnce, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    All:

    First, I'm not normally found here in the multihull forum. So consider me a newbie and accept I may make some missteps in my inquiry.

    I'm interested in the possibility of building a small, trailerable camp cruise multihull. I've absorbed Richard Woods published material, as well as done some Google searching for options.

    Some background first.

    Sailing: I am a lifelong dinghy sailor and have been active in performance oriented boats. Skiffs, 505s and the like. Mostly trapeze boats, but now on the wrong side of 50, early onset arthritis is getting in my way. I can't easily face the idea of sailing a keel boat. I have spent time sailing Hobies and beach cats, and have done my required pitchpoles, flown hulls and round-the-front, down-the-mine adventures.

    Venue: Live on the Ottawa River (on a 25 kilometer by 2-3 kilometer lake section), spend time annually on Lake Huron and am an hour from the Thousand Islands section of the St. Lawrence river & Lake St. Claire. Pretty large venues, inland and fresh water, but Lake Huron isn't trivial. My family's location on Lake Huron is 85 miles across from the closest point in Michigan. Shallow draft is good.

    Building: I've built and rebuilt boats from Cedar canoes to stitch & tape and cedar stripping and frame & stringer. Handy with wood, good shop facilities and tools. Interested in (but inexperienced) with resin infusion and vacuum bagging. Don't mind learning new, and have started to pick up things necessary to play with resin infusion. Have to deal with cold, frozen season annually. Can walk across my part of the river 4 months of the year.

    Usage: Basically fast afternoon-evening, weekend day trips and some limited family cruising for three. Not afraid of camping style accommodations. Like the option of trailerable but would appreciate avoiding cranes launching as it limits locations. Want something easy to launch/retrieve so that I can change venues. Not really interested in racing and would like to avoid the whole club racing scene - I've been there and done that.

    Things I like: Woods Janus and Wizard hard chine designs are kind of the largest projects work-wise I'd entertain, as two years of building and many hundreds of hours doesn't fit with suburban Dad responsibilities as well as full time work. I'd love to build beautiful complex curves but sanding for months to achieve fairness and the time associated with cold molding or cedar stripping two hulls is scary. Fast build is worth compromising for ultimate performance.

    Concerns: I'm not certain how current Mr. Woods designs are, and if there are more modern options available. I'm not opposed to flat panel building with foam cored infused panels or plywood. Frankly, I'm pretty pragmatic about using the right materials for the right job at the right price. Cost IS an issue, as with the spectre of higher education for my son on the horizon as well as retirement in the age of no pensions and self-administered saving.

    Other options: Buying used certainly makes sense in today's post apocalyptic financial meltdown, but I can't see lots of multihulls in my area. If there are great options out there at great prices, I'd concede building to get on the water a year sooner.

    Resale: I'd rather build/buy something that will not be unsellable.

    Now that I've bared my soul and general multlhull ignorance, have at it and give me your thoughts! I've generally thought catamaran instead of trimaran because of build effort, but could be open to either. Multihull performance brings interesting range into the equation - there are too many sportboat/trailer sailors that never leave the docks due to their inability to get anywhere in limited recreation time.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Trimaran or cat? When you say "fast" do you mean slower or faster than a beach cat? If a tri,would you want to be able to fly the main hull?
    Sounds like you would want a center cockpit where you're feet can hang down rather that sitting on a tramp?
     
  3. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I'm going to sound like a scratched record but for a good performing trailerable demountable trimaran with a simple strip method of construction I think it's hard to go past the Warren 23 (actually 25' long). Ted reckons you can build it on a short budget of $7500 USD I think plans were about $4000 last time I checked. They come with full size mold cutouts if I recall correctly. The saving comes with being able to build your own mast in strip rather than buying. That can add a lot of cost to your average build. Really you just need to buy your sails and rigging/fittings.

    http://www.warrenmultihulls.com/w-23.htm

    The beauty is of these boats if your launching from a beach carry it down in segments (which are light) and assemble on the beach or on a trolley. Theres enough displacement for some camp cruising and enough performance to bring a smile. It might have a smaller cockpit than what your after but you could probably set up a tent or two on the nets for space.

    Cats are fine in larger sizes but for daysailing I reckon it's hard to go past the trimaran option. With my production beach trimaran we have carried it into all sorts of places it would be hard to lug an assembled fixed beam cat into. Even squeezing through tight gates on the trolley and over stone walls which would stymie any attempt to get a cat through. It really opens up your launching options thats for sure. The extra building time is not as much as it would appear your not really building that much extra surface area just spreading it over more hulls just imo of course. The other thing is you build both the floats over the same mold so there is no extra setup.
     
  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I don't think I've noticed the 23 before , Corley-it looks good! A lot more design detail than most other designers provide-at least in a one page "brochure" like that. L/B, lbs/in immersion of ama and main hull("sensitivity" new word for that!)
     
  5. teamvmg
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: christchurch,uk

    teamvmg Senior Member

    Take a look at f-boat.com

    No need to build a boat that looks like a home build or that is out of date even before you start.

    get in quick because plans are only available for a few more weeks, Designer support is on-going though.
     
  6. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Here's Three Devils; a fat version of Sid; if you can decipher the lines, it's yours for no cost.
    Course you're taking on the unknown, untested - and becoming part of the truly crazed lunatic fringe.
    Devils is 8x8 metres ... but it is a small boat, weighs complete around 270 kgs. Tensioned 3 and 4mm ply, wing mast, also foils if you want them. Keep in touch. Haahaaaaa!
    I warned you.
     

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  7. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    In what way is the Warren 23 out of date? For the purpose it's designed it would still do the job very well.

    I dont think F-boats are a straightforward build or less work to construct than a Woods Janus or Wizard. Having helped out friends who have built F boats through the club it's hardly a quick or easy build the most dedicated have taken at least three years to build and it will probably cost as much to do as buying a kit F22. I dont necessarily think that the OP wants to pitch that sort of money into this project.

    The Warren23 can be built for a bit over 11k plans included I'd like to see any Fboat coming anywhere near that. If it only costs you 11k to build you have less to recoup at sale time and can be happy with a lower price. Despite claims of good resale prices many Fboats in Australia have sat on the market for a long time and have had to drop their price substantially before being able to sell. Fboat! is not the answer to every question it suits some people but not everyone.
     
  8. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Out of interest Gary how do you go about extrapolating a line plans into the flat panel tensioned ply cutouts? Is there any rule of thumb to follow?
     
  9. DarthCluin
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: Florida

    DarthCluin Senior Member

    You might look at Ray Kendrick's designs. The plans are stunningly inexpensive, and the designs are clever and very attractive. The Scarab 650 looks to be in your size range.
    http://www.teamscarab.com.au/scarab650/design.html
    That said, I really like Richard's cats, though my favorite would be the Merlin with the optional removable cuddy.
     
  10. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday U - just can't resist - it's a bit cool - 19* @ 0900 hrs. but it'll make 29* at least - ha ha ha

    Really though - Hat's off to you Corley - yet again - Thanks for being so honest & not to rude - sure hope all the others in here - respect your knowledge & overview - as at least being - somewhat impartial - well at least somethimes. This just can't be me talking - naahhh.

    Like you - I can't imagine 'cut-once' wanting to spend 15 or 20 grand on a little toy - - & take 2 or 3 years to build it - - I sure wouldn't.

    The Warren 23' - looks the goods (I'd rather the 27' though) & at that price might be just the 'ducks-guts' (which would make a great name also)

    Only cause I is who I is - I'd go for - - DEVILS FRINGE c/w wing & curved-foils - - all home built - cause I don't see it as difficult as most people might like to make out it is - - cause it just isn't all that hard - - ie - use brain not brawn - take some time to think before picking up big hammer - - oui - did I say that - nah - not me - nevaa.

    I'll start saving my cents - don't have any of the other spelling - so I can build DEVILS FRINGE but using pre laminated glass flat sheet instead of 3 & 4 mm ply (or was that 2 & 3 mm ply - ha ha) maybe shipped in from South Africa - if they still make the best thin ply in the world - don't know that answer any more - it's been to long.

    FABULOUS - GARY - love it to bits. I'll start today by getting a lotto & say all my prayers - "now I lay me down to sleep" ciao, james
     
  11. Gary Baigent
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    Location: auckland nz

    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    hi Corley, good question, how do I do it? Tries to remember.
    First you make the two central bulkheads which are joined together to make a round bilge box, very stiff, light and strong, then make the bow and transom plus a couple of intermediate frames, then cut stringers, keelson and gunwhales, erect the central box upside down on frame, bow, transom, stringers, gunwhales, glue together. Then working from middle, glue your skins, either thin ply sheets or foam onto the keelson, bend them down to gunwhales. That's all there is to it. A little time is spend lining up and slightly reshaping angles of the scarf joins. Continue.
    Actually if you want more detail there's a complete explanation with photographs in Alternative to marvelous B24.
     
  12. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Thanks Gary, that makes sense. For some reason when I think tortured ply I think of stitched flat panels and a deck jig but of course it doesn't have to be that way at all no reason the internal structure cant be built first. It would actually have some advantages like being able to easily and accurately position daggerboard case and reinforcements in advance.
     
  13. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Sydney Australia

    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Cut Once said:-
    Usage: Basically fast afternoon-evening, weekend day trips and some limited family cruising for three.

    You have just described the Buccaneer 24. :)
     
  14. cyclone
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    Location: Trenton, Maine

    cyclone Junior Member

    I'm building a John Marples Constant Camber 23 trimaran which I hope performs to expectations but it has been an order of magnitude more involved than the previous boats I have built. Plans for the F22 are no longer available from Farrier but I believe there are many aborted builds out there that could give you a head start for what seems to be an excellent boat. If I was in a hurry to go sailing I would be looking for a used F24 or a Maine Cat 22.
    JT
     

  15. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Thanks to all that have replied so far. The suggestions are great and I'm assimilating them. I've had one off-line response and I've replied in kind.

    In response to Doug's questions, I'm more focused on better cruising performance than toned down racing. Flying a hull would not scare me, but not at the expense of bring capsizes into the realm of possibility. Everyone here has good mobility, so moving on tacks and sitting on a tramp/solid bridgedeck isn't a problem. A foot well brings slamming into play in a cat.

    Cat or tri? I'm not invested in either, but trailerability and bunks (even tented) for three/four would be nice. Tris look very interesting, but more money.

    The Farrier 22/24 folding tris looks great - if I could find one in the $15-20K range (but I realise that is more of a lottery win than a possibility.

    --
    CutOnce
     
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