Sugestion for thrilling Sailing Dingy

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Yacht Skipper, May 3, 2006.

  1. Yacht Skipper
    Joined: Feb 2006
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    Yacht Skipper Junior Member

    Hello Folks,
    I'm looking to build a Dingy to sail alone or with my girlfriend.
    I would like something thrilling like a Moth but that can be sailed by two people.
    could be mono or multi, foils would be great but not necesary if speed can be achieved. The cheaper to build the better. I have windsurf gears so if I can adapt sails that will be great.
    No need to enter in any category, race rules etc...
    Does anybody has some for a craft like this that I could buy.
    Any sugestions will be well apreciated.
    Thanks,
     
  2. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Fast Sailing

    If you wanted to build and were willing to do a lot of work you could consider something like a scaled up Moth.(see the "Peoples Foiler" thread-page 2 or 3 of this forum or thereabouts- for the aeroSKIFF design idea by Eric Sponberg and myself with sketches by Eric-250lb. max capacity). If you want a used, ready to go boat, that is thrilling to sail and that you can add foils to you might consider an International 14 though either would be hard to singlehand on foils and still foil with your friend on board.Both boats would be DIFFICULT to master though if you were to adopt some of the ideas on the aeroSKIFF(buoyancy pods, unstayed rig, sliding bench seat) a scaled up Moth type would be somewhat less demanding. If you consider adding foils you should realize that the cost for a pro set of foils from a company like Fastacraft would be in the vicinity of $3-4000-maybe more now that energy(resin)costs are going crazy. If you bought them from a company like Fastacraft you'd get a complete system tailored to your boat including the altitude control system. Building them on your own would be more than likely to be a discouraging exercise. Go to the Australian Moth site and to their Forum and read everything-much great info.Also see the "Building a Moth" thread and "Moths in the NE US" thread on Dinghy Anarchy for very good info on homebuilding a Moth.
    There is the Hobie 17(designed for singlehanding) and there are numerous other cats that could be singlehanded and still be suited for a crew.Used high performance boats like the A class cat and Tornado can be found. If you pick up the newest issue of Catamaran Sailor Mag(Apr-May) there are some adds you could consider. One in particular could interest you: a guy by the name of Mark at 419-341-0536(cell) or 419-285-5723(office) has an ad for an 18 sq. meter cat(wide A class type cat) for $3000 and for several other 5.2m and Tornado hulls that are unfinished. Might be the begining of a cat or tri project. The guy is in Ohio.
    There are a couple of small tris built by Windrider that are relatively inexpensive but not in the high performance category. And there are small tri plans by Kurt Hughes and other designers you could check into.
    At any rate good luck and let us know what direction you go in and how it turns out...
    ------------------
    Australian Moth Class Association :: Index
    Address:http://www.moth.asn.au/forum/index.php?sid=b2984b019982eb0292321c902664a9d2
    ------------------
    Moths in NE US - Sailing Anarchy Forums
    Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29873&pid=714393&st=200&
    ------------------
    Building a Moth - Sailing Anarchy Forums
    Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=27655
    ------------------
    Peoples Foiler :aeroSKIFF™ / M4 - Boat Design Forums
    Address:http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10671&highlight=Peoples Foiler
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2006
  3. Raggi_Thor
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Raggi_Thor Nav.arch/Designer/Builder

  4. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Ike Senior Member

    I don't know if they are still around but years ago my Dad, brother and I built an OK Dinghy. It looks like a scaled down Finn. It was easy to build, and easy to sail. It had an unstayed rotating mast. There were only two lines. One to haul up the sail and the other to control the boom. The boom actually fitted into a slot in the mast so there was no fitting. This was about as simply as it gets. It was designed to be sailed by one by could be used by two although a little slower. It would plane and was quite an exciting boat. Do a google search and see if you can find the plans for one
     
  5. gggGuest
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    gggGuest ...

    Scaled up Moths as two handers and have been tried and haven't worked.

    To make rational suggestions from what's out there we really need to know how much the two of you weigh.
     
  6. Seafarer24
    Joined: May 2005
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    Seafarer24 Sunset Chaser

    Just get a Hobie Wave or a catamaran in the Formula 14 category (Alpha Omega 14 is probably the best one at the moment)
     
  7. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Scaled up Moths

    Jim, I try to pay attention to development and so far I've never seen or heard of a scaled up foiler Moth not working -the only one close that I know about is the M4 which is 2' longer than a Moth but still a singlehander(although capable of handling a larger crew weight than a Moth)-and it does work. Do you have any sites that I could go to to read about the failures?
    ---------------------

    The M4 concept
    Address:http://www.sailm4.co.uk/ Changed:6:03 PM on Thursday, May 4, 2006
    =========================
    The following picture is not a "scaled up Moth" ; it is a two person Internatioal 14-in fact it is the first I14( David Lugg's boat) to ever fly on just two foils and it is the FIRST two person bi-foil monofoiler(same type foil arrangement as the Moth). A properly done scaled up foiler Moth would be likely to be better than this boat at early take off because of the narrower hull. A two person foiler is possible as this boat illustrates and the foil sets are commercialy available; what would be difficult is being able to sail it on foils singlehanded as well as doublehanded if that was your intention.
    aus14_2.jpg
    Address:http://www.monofoiler.com/images/aus14_2.jpg Changed:6:32 PM on Thursday, July 31, 2003
    ======================
    YS, heres one more modern conversion of a dinghy to foils:
    turboed RS600 -See the "Daily Sail" subscription site.
    My point is to not necessarily encourage you in this direction but to give you a wider perspective on what has been and is being done in this area. At this time in history you'll be able to get more help than has ever been available to make a monofoiler project like this work. Whether it's right for you and your friend is yours to decide; Jim is 100% right about weight-that might make the decision on a boat to recommend easier for us to focus in on....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2006
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  8. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Ike Senior Member

    As I said before everyone got off on the Moth, an OK dinghy is easy to build and can be very thrilling. Here's some links. The first one shows photos of one being built http://www.kanakacreekboatworks.com/ok.htm The next two are the International Class site and the UK association site http://www.okdia.org/ http://www.okdinghy.co.uk/.

    It's simple build out of plywood. The mast can be wood, but apparently most people today use carbon fiber. I can remember making the mast out of two rough cut pieces of timber. We ran a grove down each with a router for the haylard, ran a big grove down the middle of each to make the mast hollow. Cut out a slot on each for the boom. another slot for the main sheave. Put the sheave in, and glued the two pieces together. The hard part was shaping the outside of the mast. It took a lot of work with a plane, and a lot of sanding. But it is a thing of beauty. Nice polished spruce.

    Anyway give it a look see. By the way, don't build it in your basement. We did the classic mistake of building it in a place we couldn't get it out of. We had to remove a door and part of a wall to get it out.
     
  9. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Here's a foiler that appears to be a failure. No evidence presented that it has ever lifted off and sailed on the foils.

    http://www.monofoiler.com/
     
  10. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    aeroSKIFF 16

    "Paul B"- as you know that boat is a foiler designed and built by myself. It has , in fact, foiled singlehanded and has a lot of unique experimental ideas that continue to be explored including square top overrotating jib,mainfoil shifting system,and manual control system. In it's original configuration, as shown on the website, it proved to be very difficult to sail and so is undergoing modifications to add sliding seats and buoyancy pods and a wand with manual override.
    One more thing: this is not a "scaled up Moth" foiler and as I mentioned earlier the only boat I know of close to that is the M4 which works well.
    Those of us that have spent the time and money to try out new ideas have successes and failures; my aeroSKIFF 16 is an ongoing work with both elements in abundance. If you're interested in very high performance or just flying in light air working in this area is most rewarding and if you do it under the guidance of experienced foiler builders and sailors you are virtually guaranteed success in every measure of the word.
     
  11. Baronvonrort
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Baronvonrort Junior Member

    One more time Doug
    Post photos of it FOILING and not seahugging.

    Thats right you cant post any photos because it has NEVER foiled!
     
  12. Tim B
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Tim B Senior Member

    There are quite a few foilers around, but to make it work the boat needs to be very light. Light weight usuallly means less comfort. Some of the older racing classes (like the LARK) are great fun to sail. They can be handled fairly easily and are pretty comfortable too.

    Also it's worth considering buying a second-hand boat. Building is a huge job. LARKs are good boats, and have good second-hand prices (as well as sensible prices new). See www.larkclass.org for more details

    Tim B.
     
  13. Baronvonrort
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    Baronvonrort Junior Member

    Yacht Skipper

    The Moth is not suitable for 2 people and the ideal competitive weight for the skipper is around 60 kg (132lbs) and you will have a long steep learning curve just to remain upright let alone sail fast.

    I would suggest you plan on sailing with your girlfriend if possible because there are far more thrilling boats to choose from if you can sail 2 up all the time.
     
  14. donncha
    Joined: May 2006
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    donncha Junior Member

    A fireball is what you want. You can get plans off the website. (Sorry no link) The are amazingly fast boats and are great fun.
     

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  15. frosh
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    frosh Senior Member

    Tandem windsurfer/yacht hybrid?

    Hi Yacht Skipper, a few years ago I designed and built a fully decked hull that could take two windsurfing rigs and was challenging and performed very well for two persons who were experienced sail boarders. Performance was obviously less than a modern sailboard but better than most dinghys. Cost was relatively low as we used existing sailboard rigs and the hull required was simple and needed only two daggerboards in addition. Construction of mine was 3mm and 4mm marine ply over western red cedar framing, 6 metres long by 84 cm. beam, but it could be built in composite if you wanted to, or a liitle smaller. Let me know if you are interested in this option and I can give some dimensions etc. :)
     
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