Such a cute little butt... errr transom... errr... aft quarters.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by lewisboats, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    something I was playing with. I think it has a certain charm and perhaps usefulness... mayhap? 14' 3" LOA, 800 lbs displ at 2' 9" draft with board down, 7.75" board up. Max beam of 59" and WL beam of 53". 91.8 sf of balanced lug sail.
     
  2. Wayne Grabow
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    Wayne Grabow Senior Member

    Cute little transom and a well proportioned hull. My only concern.... do you really think that you will have 800 pounds of displacement? If it were me, I would envision either two adults or one adult and one or two children, and I am guessing that the hull itself would be rather light. I don't see it adding up to 800 pounds. But you know what you want, and I am just guessing. Good luck.
     
  3. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Pretty little boat Steve. It appears that it might be a lapstraker. A classic little boat she would be. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    I like your drawing but if I wanted a boat, not bad looking, but proven in design and performance, I'd think of a GIS or Maybe a Windmill. Either of them much easier to build and probably better all around performers. Hey, that is just me the pragmatist.

    I think you'd ought to get busy on the build that you have drawn. Go for it dude!
     
  4. philSweet
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    philSweet Senior Member

    very nice.
     
  5. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I like it Steve and think it, one of the best examples of your evolution as a designer. I'm building a lapstrake just a wee bit bigger (15' 4" on a 13' 3" LWL), though proportionately less beam and the hull weight is just 190 pounds (91 kg) and it carries 60 pounds in ballasted centerboard. Lapstrakes aren't as hard to build as you might think and I've developed a system to make it much easier. You literally cut the planks in place on the boat (laminate trimmer and a flush cutting router bit), over temporary battens, so the plank runs are perfect, no spiling, no templates, nothing. When I'm done with this build, I'll document the technique and post it on my site.

    As a rule, you should make the sheer strake a bit taller than the rest for aesthetic considerations and to leave room for the run rail. It just looks better, if the sheer strake is about 5% - 10% taller then the next down. I'd also consider an additional plank or two per side, which will more closely mimic a round bilge and again look better. Another little rule is, to use an odd number of planks per side (3, 5, 7, etc.) which looks better then even numbers.
     
  6. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    Oh hey, now that's using your head. I like the idea already.

    Anyway it does look like a nice boat. One question though: why so much rake on the centreboard?
     
  7. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Sounds an interesting development (clinker/lapstrake) PAR. As a friend once said, 'One day all you'll need is a router to make pretty much everything in wood!'

    I'd second making the sheer strake taller than the next plank down. It is to do with harmonius horizontals and how we perceive them. As in Georgian houses (in UK anyway) reducing window heights as you go up the building. Also the stem should/will be curved not jaggedy and this is not hard to achieve so that will aid the aesthetics too.

    With respect to PAR, I'm less convinced by the number of planks per side needing to be odd. Too many even number plank boats out there, you could even argue in essence current Int 14s'....

    Somewhere around 90 -100Kg is about right for the hull in 6 and maybe some 5mm ply and solid. Hardware dependent too as a lot of fittings soon add up. Nice work.
     
  8. NoEyeDeer
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    NoEyeDeer Senior Member

    Storer's Goat Island Skiffs, which are about the same size, commonly come in at 50 kg + rig. All 6mm and up.

    With the sheerstrake, I usually just add the depth of the gunwale to whatever the standard width is.
     
  9. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Thank you for all the nice comments and suggestions.

    [​IMG]

    I took a couple of minutes to implement the suggestions (for the most part) and this is the result. The bow became kinda spoony so I might have to work on that a bit. The 800 lb displacement is maximum before the hull gets too deep and starts dragging the transom excessively. More likely usage would have a displacement between 400 and 600 lbs. I draw quite a few boats (several hundred in the current design folder) and though I wish I could build them all, I have 7 boats now either waiting to be used or being built or needing restoration. My next build start will be on this one here:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mik the stick
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    Mik the stick Senior Member

    this boat is lovely. wish i could use software as good as you. mik:cool:
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Steve other than trying to look like something, what is the need for the big cutwater, long shallow keel and stern post? They're not going to be helpful in terms of leeward resistance, but will add drag? The previous model will do better in this regard, simply because it doesn't have these appendages. In defense of the long keel, it does help decrease the intrusion of a centerboard case, though not by much. In this aspect, I'd use a stub keel, to lower the board into, to reduce it's impact on accommodations. The stub would simply offer a place for the lower portions of the board to live and wouldn't extend in each direction more then necessary. I'd also like to see more board in the case, for a better purchase, particularly on as high an aspect board as this. Your current board is about 25% enclosed, which is a bit "iffy" to me. On a modest aspect rig, you can't take advantage of the high aspect potential of the board, so, you can have more board bury in the case, without harm. On the other hand if you elect to have a generous sail area and/or higher aspect rig, the longer/deeper board will make improvements in her performance potential. Simply put, a low aspect lug yawl/ketch doesn't need a high aspect centerboard, though a good kickup spade rudder would be helpful.
     
  12. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Nope... just trying to look like something. Mostly something Scandinavian faering-ish but better able to carry sail... say a cross between a true faering and something by Ian O. but still quite rowable. It will be able to take to the beach. The board is there but not necessarily the final one... I may go with a dagger board or a shorter, wider board. The keel is there for a couple of reasons... it goes with the general styling, it provides a modicum of LR with the board up for sailing the last yardage to the beach or helping to skim over shoals. I am hoping to get this into some kind of salt water if I can, at least once or twice. I have been thinking maybe Florida or along the gulf coast. Finally... and I guess this is the clincher... I like it.

    Its supposed to be something like this:

    [​IMG]

    built for comfortable if not epically fast sailing and rowing. I even have the head piece design... a snarling wolf's head carved out of Bloodwood
     
  13. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Awww don't go too retro....;)

    I'm with PAR for similar reasons. BTW the mizzen you show is IMHO a waste of time. I've sailed stuff like that and it does very little except get in the way and is a nuisance to rig a steering system round - ropes,chains,links whatever. Reminds me of the old whaler type craft. Direct tiller gives the feed back you want best.

    You had a relatively modern shape which would still do what you want and maybe even plane offwind. The double ender won't unless you power it up like an IC (Int Canoe)!. However a modernish twist might be to curve the transom quite strongly forward (in plan view), sort of between a flat transom and the double ender.

    A jib would power it upwind well, as would a vertical or near vertical c/board edge. A c/board allows you to move the CLR aft as the wind comes up by raking aft. On a cat/una rig this is very useful in maintaining a good helm balance. If for example you could slide a Laser d/board aft in a 4 or 5+ it would definitely help upwind. Daggerboards work best of all, if different sizes for different wind strengths.

    Maybe approach it as a 21st century Scandi/Northern Euro type?
     
  14. lewisboats
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Not looking for it to plane... I would have designed it to if I did. It is designed for this kind of camp sailing...

    http://intheboatshed.net/2014/09/18/baja-coast-sailing/

    or check out the Sail and Oar threads on Woodenboat forum. They do the Pacific NW but there is a group of Islands called the Apostles up in Lake Superior that are very similar... I think they would be the perfect place to break it in... in a couple-three years when its done. My son also has his heart set on this style... and it will probably go to him after I build another, something else. Probably this one...

    [​IMG]

    Yup, I use the same default foil in most of my working models. I'll finalize it later.
     

  15. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Much more fun getting something to plane sweetly, more so when others don't expect it! At anything over 14' it would go easily anyway and be more stable to steer so doing with lighter rig loads. The real tricks (shape wise) are in very marginal conditions. There are a lot of keel boats a little bigger which plane fine. Maybe I just don't like doing 5kn when I could be doing double that and with less fuss...;). Seems to give better range and maybe more time in the pub!.
    Also I have yet to find it hinders good sea keeping if well designed.

    Larger cruiser dinghies include stuff like the Comet Trio which will plane and do serious sea trips too. Complete with lockers etc and often used for camping/cruising times.

    There are still a few tricks you could pull even with the more 'historical' nod which might surprise a few. Good luck with her.
     
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