Submarine Yacht project

autonomous deep diving submarine concrete hull

julius, a deep diver with a series of spheres as pressure hull, and a streamline outer hull is a concept i also have discussed with carsten in germany. Concrete spheres could go very deep if you spare viewports average ocean floor might come in range to such a boat. If you study building history of TRIESTE you see that limiting factor is the size of the steel sphere. This is basically true for all deep diving concepts from ALVIN to MIR, etc... all those submarines have zero autonomy due to the small interior space and there is no way to make really big spheres from steel titanium, glass, whatever - concrete hulls do NOT have that size limit - so you can make a very big submarine that goes very deep and is very independent due to its size - only from concrete not from other materials. This could lead to a mother ship free deep sea working concept deploying ROVS and newt suits from a sub as outlined. Deploying ROVS from a sub has the big advatage of getting rid of cable spooling and risky - storm coming in take ROV aboard - operations.

 

sail power in ocean crossings with submarine yachts

Julius, In general submarines are able to move efficient and economic with little engine power as they move below weather and wave resistance. Any mechanism or engine that can create a constant force is able to move a submarine - the necessary force is SURPRISINGLY low basically a submarine is suspended in liquid space - small constant forces can move it. Cheers Wil

 

submarine yacht hydraulic power generation

hydraulic generators are a quite common thing installed on may sailing yachts. Work basically the same way as a wind turbine just in water. The advantage is that energy content in water stream is by a factor 800 higher than in wind so you can work with far less rotor diameter.

 

battery power on a submarine yacht diesel only configuration

Hello Julian,
...based on the experience with my prototype submarine i would go for a diesel only configuration on a submarine yacht. If any i would have a very small battery pack for the reasons explained in ( http://concretesubmarine.com ) project 98 ton expedition submarine yacht. The need to make miles under water with electric power is a military need only. In a yacht submarine you have blissful drift dives, similar to a balloon, use your engine under snorkel, or lie on sea floor watching marine live coming to you. As any scuba diver knows only freshman moves around a lot while diving. The need to go under engine to a cite is a lack of dive point planning.

 

I agree with you that the option to deploy divers while staying at 1ATM isn't particualry usefull, but having a pressure chamber on board of a divers vessel that can also do this task is quite beneficial for health reasons.
But if you have a closer look at that aquarius link it should be quite clear that the option to deploy divers with an equalized pressure in the sub is extremely usefull for long time (1-2weeks) marine historical excavations, and I think even more so for biological research due to the extended (basicly unlimited) diving time. All in relative shallow water of course (~40m).

 

Power

The Hunley weighed something like 40,000 pounds, with six men cranking had maybe 5 horsepower being delivered to the prop, yet was able to maneuver effectively in Charleston bay.

 

Air Independent Propulsion

Air Independent Propulsion.

http://www.kockums.se/Submarines/aipstirling.html

http://www.navyleague.org/seapower/aip_alternative.htm

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...pene-subs-with-mesma-aip-propulsion/index.php

http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA304112

 

Confederate Sub

The Hunley was not quiet a nimble beast but it did get the job done. The prototype " Pioneer" 35' sub was built here in New Orleans and tested with three "man" power, in 1864. The same Hunley team built another sub in Mobile the "American Diver" before the better known Hunley sub which has been raised. Pioneer and American Diver sketches shown...We did a full size reproduction on display in the local maritime museum. While doing so we found an excellent section drawing done before it was sold for scrap in 1865.

 

diving from a submarine saturation diving

Hi Julius,
I agree in general that diving from a sub is scuba diving with all its limitations. To achieve depth below that you would have to pack a saturation dive operation into a sub. This means space of 3 containers - at least - only for saturation dive needs. So you need a very big sub for that...carsten from germany has pushed the limits in this field...his 70 tonner euronaut is designed as a saturation dive base the whole submarine can work as deco chamber.
Cheers Wil

 

Hmm not sure I completely understood your last post.

Of course turning the complete sub into a deco chamber wouldn't be advisable in a concrete submarine as it is only stable to pressure from the outside, not from the inside right?

But why would you need as much space as 3 containers for such a submarine - saturation dive base hybrid?
What I mean is that a ~100ton c-sub like you describe it on your page seems big enough to have a steel deco chamber of lets say 8-10 cubic meters with two exits (one to the outside) inside of it and enough pressurized air to also increase the pressure inside to ambient levels in the entire submarine for extended periods (to work as a saturation dive base).

It should also have enough living space(=sleeping space) for 2-3 people working as divers, or am I missing something?

 

julius...saturation diving is not only a diver chamber the chamber is the smallest element of a total system. Once a pair of divers is under saturation you can not de-comprimize them for several days - maybe for weeks. This means your system must be prepared to maintain and supply all the needs that 2 divers have during weeks - this includes food, shower, toilet, sleeping, leisure time, medical emergencies, - all in a artificial controlled gas atmosphere that never must fail which means all systems double and backed up, even a rescue and transfer chamber for case of emergency... so a saturation system is a lock out chamber, a living chamber, a toilet chamber, a sleeping chamber, a dry chamber, a wet chamber a atmosphere control system, a water heating system , a special communication system, - saturation diving means a ship - a big one - with a crew and technicians and systems dedicated to supply the saturation diver teams needs under any thinkable circumstance. This goes far beyond what you can pack in 10 cubic meters...
There is a general tendency to cut saturation diving out and go for 1atm suits or work with ROVs due to cost and risk factor in saturation diving.

You are right - you can make the whole sub a saturation chamber - see carstens boat euronaut. In this case the boat is designed to work equally with several ATM internal overpressure - you can do this with steel - not with concrete. Concrete is good for external pressure only.

cheers wil

 

Hmm I guess I simply had a different degree of saturated diving in mind You are completely right, real cutting edge saturated diving is not feasable on such a small ship, or at least not without serious savety concerns).

I was thinking about low tech/low cost saturated diving like it is described in that aquarius link, with shallow dephs of 20-40 meters at the very maximum, which lowers the needed time of decompression to a few days at the very most (Aquarius needs a 17h decompression from 63feet).
Thus the deco chamber is really only needed for emergencys.

Normally a c-sub/saturated diving hybrid I imagine would dive to the place/depth needed, fix it's position somehow, and then adjust the internal pressure to ambient levels.
After 10 days or so underwater time (with plenty of time for the divers to reseach) the internal pressure would then slowly be lowered to 1 ATM again over the course of 1-2 days by an electrical air compressor (at no time would there be a internal pressure higher than the external pressure).
Thus the internal pressure chamber is only needed for emergencys, or if the submarine was to shortly visit the surface to resupply (if needed at all), while the divers stay in the chamber.

Does that sound feasable?

 

submarine diver lock out alternatives

you can do that...you have to solve a couple of practical problems similar those that arrise in underwater hotels. Just think about divers coming in with wet suits bringing saltwater to your living space, computer circuits, etc. so you need a lock out, a diver shower, dry, and change room with equipment wet and dry store - this will still take more space than 10 cubic meters. To apply this you should think more of a submarine dive base, than a submarine yacht. A habitat based on a sphere of some 6m diameter with a wet-level and dry level as lined out in my website could be a solution. It would be kind of conshelf but with sufficient living space and independence to run the decompression at end of the saturation phase in the habitat itself, controlled by the saturation crew itself - independent of surface assistance. Stays the basic question - is exposing humans to a hostile and potential lethal ambient the best way to get the work done and to investigate. When Cousteau proclaimed the saturation diving aquanaut back in the 60ties there where no alternatives for getting work or investigation done like tele-presence and 1atm suits. It was the time when Astronauts would conquer space. Seems that both astronauts and aquanauts are bound to extinction and be replaced by newer, risk free, more cost efficient concepts. Bob Ballard has a nice story he tells now and then to bing this to the point. When hydrothermal vents with those new extreme lifeforms where first undiscovered by a ROV in the 70ties it was a geological expedition - so imagine - the biggest biological discovery of the century and no biologist on board the expedition ship. It took 3 years to get another expedition together - now with biologists and alvin as diveboat to return to the hydrothermal vent site. First dive, the biologist - finally - can get a first direct view to those new lifeforms after 3 years of delay. In the meanwhile Ballard is testing a ROV on the other side of ALVINs cabin. After a while Ballard notices that the biologist has abandoned the viewport and is looking over Ballards shoulder to see the ROV monitor. So Ballard says - i cant believe it you have waited 3 years, spent a million of dollars in expedition cost, dived 4000 meters deep to get a first direct view of those liveforms and you are not looking at them ??!!! - The biologist answers: What i need to know about those lifeforms - i can see it better on your ROV monitor than in a direct view. Concludes Ballard - "I have been working on ROVs ever since"...and that was back in the 70ties when ROV and camera technology was by far less developed...
Other than in the 60ties there is no thing in the ocean you could not see, not grab, not investigate by far better with ROV than with a saturation diver. So diving is fine for enjoying the shallow ocean - do scuba - but if colonization of oceans will take place it will probably be maintaining humans at 1atm.
Cheers Wil

 

submarine yacht versus surface yacht benefits

- what is the benefit of a submarine yacht ? i tried to sum it in eleven points...

save harbor beneath the waves

no hurricane season wandering

marina and harbor free operation

closed burglar and pirate safe

quiet living space at sea

drift dive operation

economic cruising

small engine

enormous range

lower slip and maintainance cost

lower hull building and engine cost

Cheers Wil

 

Hmm, after reading your site and that of the euronaut project, I started to wonder if that is maybe only the case in a calm lake such as the one you tested your prototype in. Because the euronaut sub has a quite big 190 horse power diesel electric engine, and they expect it to run (only?) at 8kn.

Is there a easy way to calculate the optimal hullspeed for a submarine?
Oh and wouldn't it be quite hard to maneuver a very heavy mass (100t) with only a small engine (due to the high inertia)?


Another interesting thing would surly be how you would design the internal steel frame of a concrete sub.
I am guessing that it must be completely covered by the concrete to avoid rusting, but if that is the case how would you connect for example a tugging point at the outside, or how are the steel hatches connected to the hull? Just drilling holes into the concrete as connection points (especially if you want to tug the entire sub with it) seems to be a too weak link (and it would probably also weaken the pressure resistance).
Or is it simply just fine to have the main steel frame sticking out of the concrete in some way?

Last but not least, the slip form way of molding the concrete woud probably mean a vertical assembly of the hull.
If that is the case, I could imagine that building a submarine longer that 10meters in one piece could prove quite difficult, not only in assembly but also getting it into the water (after all if is a very heavy object).
Related to that: if it isn't assembled in once piece, which would be really beneficial for the building of the interior also, how do you connected the pieces afterwards in a pressure and longitudional force resistant manner?