Submarine Design

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by karabacak, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. zeroname
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    zeroname Naval Architect

    links not working
     
  2. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

  3. karabacak
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    karabacak Junior Member

    the link do not work tom unfortunately
     
  4. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    I just tried it and it worked...
     
  5. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bntii Senior Member

    Wow- Remarkable effort and result in that sub.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Yes, no expense spared. He is semi-retired but busy as hell.

    He still has only two or three sea-trials under his belt.

    I look forward to further test results.

    Tom
     
  7. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    Tom- do you know if this is being put together as a prototype for a production boat or a one off?
    The page on psubs is great on photos but a little lite on back story. I would like to know a bit more about the build.
     
  8. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    bntii,

    Both. Cliff is a pretty private guy and he doesn't/didn't want a lot of

    publicity with his build. He is a "retired" fluid dynamics engineer with his

    own company. He built it as a one-off but to spec for production and

    commercial sale should he decide to go that way. It's fly-by-wire, 10kw,

    touch screen. I recall about 3-tonnes submerged. We corresponded

    for some time by email but I haven't heard from him for months now...

    He's got 20 degree all-round articulation on the jet nozzle and I assume

    the "ailerons" function as pitch and roll control surfaces via the fly-by-wire

    computer. Pretty well my dream machine if I had the $$$.

    There are a few things I would do differently, but not much.

    Tom
     
  9. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    Thanks
     
  10. tspeer
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    tspeer Senior Member

    To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one successful flying submarine - the Reid RFS-1.
    [​IMG]
    This was basically a submersible airplane. The air propeller had to be removed and the engine sealed before it could submerge. The cockpit was completely flooded, so this was a wet sub. But it did both submerge and fly.

    What are the requirements for your craft? I suggest stability when submerged is the least of your problems. If you have a configuration that is stable in the air, making it stable underwater should be straightforward. I think you should focus on more fundamental issues, such as performance, both airborne and submerged.

    If you think through the issue of a flying sub, I believe you will realize that any air space when submerged is a huge problem if the craft has to fly, because the weight needed to overcome the buoyancy of the air space has to be lifted when the craft flies. Fuel becomes a problem both submerged and flying, because fuel is lighter than water and any buoyancy is detriment to being able to submerge.

    Treat this as an airplane that can submerge rather than as a submarine that can fly. That was Reid's approach, and I think it's the only practical one. I suggest you don't try to submerge using negative buoyancy, but fly the craft down using negative lift and positive buoyancy. I also suggest you do not try to make a dry sub, but flood every void within it - including the fuel tanks (use bladders to separate the fuel from the water).
     
  11. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    tspeer,

    I don't believe anyone said anything about flying in the air, rather flying in

    the water, unlike a conventional submarine.

    Interesting photo you posted though.
     
  12. oralpiskin
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    oralpiskin Junior Member

    hi,
    is it reasonable to use ITTC 1957 method to calculate the resistance of a submerged vehicle?
     
  13. DarthCluin
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    DarthCluin Senior Member

    I think what KARABACAK is designing is a heavier than water craft. He doesn't expect it to fly in air, he wants it to fly in water.
    I think I read about them in a novel, possibly by Martin Caidin, or Lee Corey (G. Harry Stine's pen name).
    Submarines as we currently know them are the aquatic equivalent of ballons, blimps, and dirigibles. A heavier than water craft would use hydrofoils to generate lift while in motion and water jets to hover.
    The main advantage is that if you don't have to float, you can build heavy, to go deeper, put bigger motors in to go faster, or just build smaller.
    The main disadvantage is if you lose power, you sink.
    I don't know if anyone has tried to build one before, and if they did, I hope they tested it someplace shallow.
     
  14. Gannet
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Gannet Junior Member

    Graham Hawkes' Sumersibles always have positive buoyancy and uses negative hydrodynamic lift to keep the submersible down so that if it losses power or propulsion it would always rise to the surface. See attachments

    Enjoy
    Gannet
     

    Attached Files:


  15. DarthCluin
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    DarthCluin Senior Member

    As a firm believer in Murphy's Law, I would feel a lot safer in the Hawkes boat, however, it is still a dirigible.
    Mind you I like dirigibles. I think the best one in the water was the U.S.S. Albacore AGSS569 (though in the air I have other preferences:D ).
     

    Attached Files:

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