stitch and glue flats

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by bamfjono, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yah Geo, I had a Johnson Seahorse 20 hp twin on a fishing skiff when I was a kid. Sporty and indestructible.

    Id expect a flat bottomed , grossly overpowered skiff would rapidly beat itself to death.

    Big motors are a fetish. Yacht next door has a 60 knot...yup 60 knot... tender. They say they need it...safety...if a thunderhead appears you can hit the gas and outrun it.

    Yah..a fetish... Like Hummer fetish, McMansion fetish.....

    Guess you could say that the High failure rate , short lifespan of these overpowered beasts is good for the marine industry and those big motors are good for the oil industry. If you were smart they could also be good for society and help pay down the national debt. Perhaps a punitive yearly registration fee based on power to weight ratio. Or call a small craft 20hp per passenger...above that and you pay to play.

    The fisherman with the biggest motor and the gold plated yearly registration ticket, would have a special status in the marina....
     
  2. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member


    Man has, as it were, become a kind of prosthetic God. When he puts on all his auxiliary organs, he is truly magnificent; but those organs have not grown on him and they still give him much trouble at times.
    Sigmund Freud
     
  3. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Man even 70hp. on a 16/17 ft. boat is alot of hp. The purchase/ maintenance/operating cost must be almost thru the roof, however in reality when compared to the same cost of say a 30ft. yacht stretched out over 20yrs. it's about the same so ya toys are toys they don't come cheap.
    Last time I was in the Keys (Marathon 2 yrs. ago we rented a 24 ft charted with three Yamaha's, 115hp. each i seem to recall. We were out 8hrs., cost was around $950 split two ways. Caught about 20lb. Yellowtail and several undersize grouper which we had to release. It was a nice trip but a one time thing for me too expensive for my budget. Those bass boat boys run big engines also on their tiny craft--Still mind boggling all that horsepower.
     
  4. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Dallas Texas

    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Good points all around. I think a lot of the hunger for power is because fast toys are a lot of fun and the marketing driving the industry says high power is the way to go.

    When you watch the tournament guys chase reds and hunt bass, they always have the meanest and fastest motors made. And with good reason. Those guys are out for a prize and race one another to the best places.
    This won't change anytime soon since the sponsors of these events are the motor manufacturers. They want to sell big fast motors and I don't blame them. They, like anyone else with a job and family, are trying to make a dollar.

    The spectators and weekend fishermen see these amazing boats in magazines, on television and on the internet, and they get their want bumps up for fishing with the meanest and fastest boats and motors made.
    Sure you could fish out of a canoe with a 2hp motor and probably do pretty well, but who wants to when your 300hp motor will get you there quicker? ;)

    Now on a more personal level. I've been dreaming to build my own flats boat for a long time and I started one last year. I had plenty of time to look over different types of flats boat, so much that I though it would be fun to write an article on them. Even though I didn't get into power and motor size, I talk about models that range from 15hp all the way up to 150, and some flats boats really get up there in hp. I'm a 19'6" boat called the Phantom from Bateau. Here is my blog about the build.

    They have a handful of flats boats to choose from and the designer respects appropriate hp size for their craft. For example, the boat I am building is rated from 70 to 115hp. They recommend a 70 but agree that the 90 is a decent choice for that size hull. However, I've chosen to go with the 115. Is it for speed? No. The reason why is because the amount of stuff I'm bolting on this boat in hardware and electronics will be a little heavy and I want a short hole shot. I plan to fit it out with a prop that will actually sacrifice speed for other benefits.

    I was leaning toward the 90 but after talking to other owners of the motor I want to purchase, an Evinrude, they suggested going with the 4 cylinder 115 over the 3 cylinder 90 for several reasons. So in a nutshell I jumped from a reasonable 70hp to possibly an overpowered 115. Could I get away with a 50hp? Maybe. Would I enjoy it? Probably not. Because I like power too. :D

    Now when it comes to fuel economy and maintenance with the larger motors, many are not affected that much. Since boats are typically toys and often only get out on the weekends, if that, these costs are not a great burden. It's typically the cost of financing and depreciation that really gets them in trouble and oftentimes these costs are unfortunately overlooked.

    philSweet covered some of the reasons for a professional to own larger motors so I won't get into their motivation.

    To michael pierzga - your tax bill is higher the more expensive your boat and motor are. And they tax the buyer of each successive purchase in the used market. I do believe however, that none of those taxes are going to pay off the national debt. Which is unfortunate. (You probably already know all that. :eek:)

    Viking North - Have we helped answer the question any?

    The FlyFishing Monk
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 27
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: Dallas Texas

    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Good points all around. I think a lot of the hunger for power is because fast toys are a lot of fun and the marketing driving the industry says high power is the way to go.

    When you watch the tournament guys chase reds and hunt bass, they always have the meanest and fastest motors made. And with good reason. Those guys are out for a prize and race one another to the best places.
    This won't change anytime soon since the sponsors of these events are the motor manufacturers. They want to sell big fast motors and I don't blame them. They, like anyone else with a job and family, are trying to make a dollar.

    The spectators and weekend fishermen see these amazing boats in magazines, on television and on the internet, and they get their want bumps up for fishing with the meanest and fastest boats and motors made.
    Sure you could fish out of a canoe with a 2hp motor and probably do pretty well, but who wants to when your 300hp motor will get you there quicker? ;)

    Now on a more personal level. I've been dreaming to build my own flats boat for a long time and I started one last year. I had plenty of time to look over different types of flats boat, so much that I though it would be fun to write an article on them. Even though I didn't get into power and motor size, I talk about models that range from 15hp all the way up to 150, and some flats boats really get up there in hp. I'm building a 19'6" boat called the Phantom from Bateau. Here is my blog about the build.

    They have a handful of flats boats to choose from and the designer respects appropriate hp size for their craft. For example, the boat I am building is rated from 70 to 115hp. They recommend a 70 but agree that the 90 is a decent choice for that size hull. However, I've chosen to go with the 115. Was it because of speed? No. The reason why is because the amount of stuff I'm bolting on this boat in hardware and electronics will be a little heavy and I want a short hole shot. I plan to fit it out with a prop that will actually sacrifice speed for other benefits.

    I was leaning toward the 90 but after talking to other owners of the motor I want to purchase, an Evinrude, they suggested going with the 4 cylinder 115 over the 3 cylinder 90 for several reasons. So in a nutshell I jumped from a reasonable 70hp to possibly an overpowered 115. Could I get away with a 50hp? Maybe. Would I enjoy it? Probably not. Because I like power too. :D

    Now when it comes to fuel economy and maintenance with the larger motors, many are not affected that much. Since boats are typically toys and often only get out on the weekends, if that, these costs are not a great burden. It's typically the cost of financing and depreciation that really gets them in trouble and oftentimes these costs are unfortunately overlooked.

    philSweet covered some of the reasons for a professional to own larger motors so I won't get into their motivation.

    To michael pierzga - your tax bill is higher the more expensive your boat and motor are. And they tax the buyer of each successive purchase in the used market. I do believe however, that none of those taxes are going to pay off the national debt. Which is unfortunate. (You probably already know all that. :eek:)

    Viking North - Have we helped answer the question any?

    The FlyFishing Monk
     
  6. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Yes, boys and their toys and i'm one of them, --Geo.
     
  7. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    +1;) more, there's plenty to put their hand up for that. All the best from Jeff.
     
  8. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    " your tax bill is higher the more expensive your boat and motor are. And they tax the buyer of each successive purchase in the used market. I do believe however, that none of those taxes are going to pay off the national debt. Which is unfortunate. "

    Hmm..OH YA ! Check out the Banana Republic of Florida..

    " On July 1, 2010, the Florida cap on yacht sales and use tax went into effect. The maximum amount of tax now collected is $18,000 - which means that yachts over $300,000 will have no extra tax collected (including county surcharges). Previously, Florida taxed yachts at 6% of the purchase price. "

    Yup....The bigger, the more outrageous, the more In your Face, the boat... the cheaper it is !

    But not to worry, all the little guys with 20hp Seahorses will chip in and make up the difference.
     
  9. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Dallas Texas

    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Interesting! I didn't know that. It may be cheaper to buy a big boat instead of a house and to live on that sucker all the time. I know some people do. Lucky!
     
  10. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Hey here's one even better-- A recent study revealed the average cost to live in a seniors home was $200 a day but the average cost to live on a cruise ship was $150 a day. That plus a ships doctor on 24hr call. Food for thought ---getting older
     
  11. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Location: Dallas Texas

    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    My goals for retirement just changed. Now to convince the wife.

    Honey! I got an idea.
     
  12. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
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    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yup...Life just doesn't make sense. Dont go with the flow... Be a contrarian, be a survivalist.
     

  13. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
    Posts: 27
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    Location: Dallas Texas

    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    I have several new articles I have written about the flats boat I am building.

    I have several new articles posted up about the flats boat I'm building, the Phantom 18. You guys might find them interesting.

    Click here for the Table of Contents

    Here is the most recent post, plus a few others.

    Leveling Your Boat’s Hull – Modern Technology Verses The Ancient Egyptians


    How to Plane Your Hull Splices Nice and Smooth


    Cutting Out Your Hull Panels

    To receive an email update when I write a new article about boat building and fly fishing, click here.

    Right now I am working on the reverse chine and I plan to blog about it when I'm done. We'll see how it turns out.:cool:
     
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