stitch and glue flats

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by bamfjono, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Yeah the designer seemed to do an ace job. Thanks for the props on the flatness. Once I had my boat plans it was easy to trace the measurements onto the balsa. I was able to build the model in a couple evenings.
     
  2. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

  3. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    If the stitch-and-glue (S&G) construction is attracting you and you can find a non-S&G design there is no reason why you cannot adapt it to S&G. It has to be a plywood design of course.

    For S&G you will need the plank developments so you can cut them from the ply while flat and have them right first time, as there's no frame to provide the pattern. Given the key dimensions or even the offsets you can create a design in free software such as carene2008 or Free!Ship. Both will give you the developments, carene is easier to use by Free!Ship has more features and will also import a table of offsets and go straight to the finished hull shape.

    The amount of time you will need to get up to speed with these applications is far less than you will spend building the boat. There is a lot of information on Free!Ship in the forum, use the search feature. The original design will provide guidance on scantling dimensions and you can get a design for a S&G boat if you need to be familiarized with the process.

    Monk: nice article!
     
  4. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Good stuff he just said there. The trick I used on the hull for modifications I made I used a sheet of foam insulation and made a mockup. I then traced the mockup on a sheet of ply and adjusted the wood as needed. It worked well.

    Kayaker - thanks for the compliment.
     
  5. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    I changed the link in the above post. Here is the new link for that little balsa wood model.

    http://www.flyfishingmonk.com/articles/boat-building/build-a-scale-model-of-your-boat/

    I also wrote a couple more blog posts you guys may find helpful. Here is the link. www.flyfishingmonk.com
     
  6. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Interesting and informative article.

    For the canoes and other small boats that I build, the marine ply is too thin to cut on a table or band saw. My boatbuilding table is topped with an inch or so of insulating foam, and I lay the ply directly on it. For cutting curves I use a small (85 mm) panel saw which is very precise and has a thin kerf; I can cut to the edge of the pencil line and shave the rest with a few strokes of a low angle block plane.

    For straight cuts I made a guide from the factory edge of a sheet of ply; I glued a batten along it and cut off a strip of ply with a skilsaw running against the batten, leaving the cut edge of the ply exactly where the blade cuts. I use it as an accurate cutting guide - no need for adding the width of the saw or trying to follow a line through the haze of dust, and no more cutting mistakes!

    The skilsaw has a zero-clearance plywood. I also cut stringers from planks using the same table and skilsaw with a long Aluminum straightedge clamped to it. I get a runout of about 0.2 mm until the plank starts to get narrow enough to flex. Then I glue it to another plank and continue cutting strips - waste not want not! Then I thickness plane the strips - using a router table - so I get one smooth side, which goes on the inside since that is the hardest surface to sand.

    One trick I use is to to plane or route edge bevels before cutting each strip off a plank. I forgot to do that when cutting the strips for my my current stripper so I will have to route a groove to fit the strips in a scrap length of wood, to hold them while I plane the bevels.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  7. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Terry,

    Thanks for taking the time to read that article! I would love to get some of your feedback on the comments section if you find you have time. It may help other readers.

    I am helping my buddy build a 21 foot kayak and have been using 4mm Okoume for the hull. We have been cutting it with the table saw, the band saw and the jigsaw with out any troubles. Are you using 3mm? We have been using the low angle block plane as well and it sure does the trick.

    As for the the foam, that works well. I have done that but only for cutting a couple of times and it was when I was ripping sheets in half when my table saw was covered or there was not enough room. Good call on reminding me of that one. I may need to add a new post with that trick and your use of the 85mm saw.

    As for the other part of your replay, concerning the strips, I think I follow you. At least kinda sorta... Do you have any pictures? I guess this is a strip built kayak? I have a book on that building process but haven't built one like that, only the stitch and glue. Also a picture of your 85mm saw set up would be cool to see as well.
     
  8. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    I have this old pic showing the skilsaw (not that actual brand, I use skilsaw as a generic term) with the zero-clearance ply sole and a Tee-shaped ply guide I use for wide ripping. For narrow strips I use an Aluminum strip clamped on the other side of the blade but the principle is the same. The Aluminum strip guide is nearly 3x the length of the sole to ensure the saw enters and leaves the cut straight - I find this is critical for thin strips. It is also important that the plank edge is dead straight, but that is so for any type of saw except a bandsaw.

    Rose Lee is a canoe; she is half strip-built and half ply construction, just an experiment to see how it turns out really. There is a discussion thred at http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/wooden-boat-building-restoration/hybrid-construction-36215.html, and more detail in my blog at http://theancientkayaker.weebly.com/canoes-rose-lee.html

    The construction is a combination of old and new, with ribs holding the strips together instead of glass, glue instead of copper tacks, only the curved bilges are stripped, the bottom is plywood, as also are the sheer planks above the curve of the bilge. I hope this approach eliminates the need for a building form with all the ply stations that have to be cut out, saving time and money. Makes no sense for a professional who would want to make more than one but attractive for the one-off type like myself - if it works.

    The build is progressing rather slowly due to annoying health problems this winter but I have the ply bottom plank shaped nicely and will start assembly soon.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    I follow you now. I also checked out your blog. That is going to be one cool kayak. Looks like a fun project!
     
  10. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    I set up a new landing page on my fly fishing blog for stitch and glue boat building.

    I set up a new landing page on my fly fishing blog for stitch and glue boat building.

    Maybe some of you fellow builders will find it helpful.

    Here it is. Boat building articles by the Fly Fishing Monk.

    If I remember I'll try to post up the progress on this thread as I go along.
     
  11. flyfishingmonk
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Fairing Boards

    I build some fairing boards in one evening out of scrap and though others may find this helpful. See pictures below.

    They are pretty straight forward. I simply selected some lengths, based off of other builders input, that would be desirable. I blogged about it here.

    [​IMG]

    Cut your boards. I built three fairing boards, each with a different length and thickness. The first board was ½ inch thick by 24 inches long. The second, ½ inch thick by 30 inches long, and the third was ¼ inch by 32 long. The thinner ¼ inch board flexes well for the curved areas of the hull, and the ½ inch is more rigid for the flatter areas. All three fairing boards are 4 inches wide.

    [​IMG]

    Make comfortable handles. I used some scrap pieces of 2×6 pine that I had left over from my boat stand. I found that handles cut to 5 ¼ inches in length, 2 inches in height and 1 ½ inches wide to be comfortable in your hand – especially when the edges are finished with a ½ inch round over bit. I made these cuts with my table saw. But you can use a miter saw as well.

    [​IMG]

    Glue on your handles. I glued three handles to each of the longer fairing boards and two handles to the shorter one. Both outside handles on each board were glued at an angle that was comfortable for my hands. I glued the center handles in the middle (length wise) of the stiffer ½ inch boards to make them even stiffer. For the ¼ inch board I glued in the handle perpendicular to the board to maintain the boards flex. Don’t worry if the handles hang over the edges of the boards, just glue them where it’s comfortable for you hands to grip the handles.

    [​IMG]

    Attach the sandpaper with spray adhesive.
    After cutting your sandpaper to the right length, lay it upside down on a drop cloth or a large piece of paper. Set the fairing board, with the bottom facing up, next to the sand paper. Apply spray adhesive to both surfaces and press the paper onto the fairing board. Trim any excess paper and your done.

    [​IMG]

    Complete!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Up to a 225hp. on a 20ft. lightweight boat just boggles my mind. On the west coast of Newfoundland from the time i was a kid fishing with my father 50yr. ago and inshore fishermen up to present time you'll find an average of 15 to 25HP. pushing typically a 750lb. 18ft. flat running from 1/2 to 5 miles out.(open North Atlantic Lobster fishery,shore attached nets with some trawl fishing) The 25hp. proved to give the best required performance and fuel efficiency. Will someone please explain to me the need for this insane horsepower on such light craft, I just don't get it, I'm not being harsh here maybe there is a pratical reason. -Geo
     
  13. flyfishingmonk
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    flyfishingmonk Junior Member

    Geo - that is one good question. I have some thoughts on this that I'll try to type up this weekend as to why consumers purchase large motors and put them on their craft.

    Interesting topic indeed.
     
  14. philSweet
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    The Florida Bay is a big place. Even owner operators will often log 80-90 miles on a day trip, and you sometimes want to get home in a hurry. 70 hp Yamaha is pretty standard for a 16'-17' one man boat that weighs 700#. Guides run 200-300hp on bigger boats with max trailerable beam. The original design is usually credited to Willy Roberts. They were plywood and there are still three or four in the upper keys. Worth a look if you can track one down.
     

  15. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

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