steam launches

hi evrybody,

im 17 and a student at college finishing a plumbing apprenticeship, but i have passion for boats (not that you would have guessed that!!!)

for as long as i can remember i have been obscessed by steam engines, and for just as long,boats.

so when,about 4/5 years ago, i discovered people who felt the same way were still building steam boats and launches to published and self-designed designs i vowed i would build one myself.

i have finally started and am scratchbuilding an 8ft model steam launch, with the proper steam plant fitted and built in the georgian style ie.10 degree slant on all superstructure,lots of polished brass, oak cedar and teak in abbundance and all varnished to a mirror finish,beautiful.

having spent a year researching designs,working on a steam boat (see: http://www.visitcumbria.com/amb/gondola.htm)
and designing my own launch, i have finally started construction.

the hull is about 10% done,all timber aquired,some mechanical components done and is generally taking shape,i am really enjoying the experience and have learnt a lot as im going along.

steam launches and boats have a wonderful heritage in most countries histories and i wondered if anyone else was too interested in them?

if you have any quieries about them or about my launch do please ask.

greg

ps. also see http://www.steamboat.org.uk and search 'shamrock', the boat a boat im privelidged to have sailed on, also http://www.steamboat.co.uk, a wonderful website showcasing these beautiful boats.

 

Hi Greg, Ron Fossum located in the Pacific Northwest of the US. I've been into hobby steamboating since 1970. It's always pleasant to find younger people into the hobby. A couple of sites you might take a look at are:

Northwest Steam Society: http://www.northweststeamsociety.org
Hobby Steamboaters Web Ring: http://www.steamboaterswebring.net

Some interesting boats to be seen and a lot of links to explore. I've always admired the grace and elegance of the Edwardian (and earlier) launches. In the US ours tended to be more practical and more robust (no machine shops close at hand in many of the areas where ours were used a 100+ years ago, if the local blacksmith couldn't fix it your were out of luck).

Ron

 

Greg, whilst I would not like to 'knock' your enthusiasm some study of your 'mother tongue' would be useful! As an Englishman you have the unique ability to step straight into most things and using the language you learnt in school (? some doubts there looking at modern schooling in England?) converse with most people here! Most of them have to learn a foreign language to speak to us (even the Yanks, or should that be especially the Yanks?!) And most of them do a damn good job of it - please don't embarass them and us by using 'pidgin English - actually it isn't even proper 'pidgin') Thank you

 

Greg, please excuse "safewalrus". He is suffering from a disease common among older generation "limeys" called "Yank bashing". Ever since we "colonials" forceably gained our independence (with great help from the French ), we have been "looked down upon" by the self righteous English. We extricated them from TWO world wars and some still resent the fact that they needed our help. And you'll note that most computer programming is written in "American" (waves "stars and stripes" while humming "The Star Spangled Banner")

 

Artemis thou strange colonial I was acutually sticking up for you lot but such is the way of the colonial - always bite the hand that feeds! Actually when you gained your so called independence you were still technically British! Suck on that one Elmer! As for the two world wars you helped us out of! you were late for both, your help was appreciated as a good colonial Should give it's mother country; others did 'cos it was needed, but are not so sanctimonious about it - computer programming has to be written in simple "American" to help the backwoodsman who whilst possibly the salt of the earth is not to bright. and not only that the guy is English so in your own language "butt out".

 

...who whilst possibly the salt of the earth is not too bright.

For shame!

 

Hi Greg,
I first want say “welcome” to the forum; it is good to see some youngsters leaving serious posts. I would be interested in seeing any pictures of your model that you have. I know very little about steam driven boats except that most had very efficient hull forms, that is what interests me. You can ignore much of the banter between the walrus and atremis, but ask them a specific question and you will benefit from their MANY years of experience.

Gary

 

Hey Gary I may be OLD but I ain't that old! Well I don't think so! but I wouldn't ask the family especially the 5 year old (OK so I'll be 70 when he's old enough to take me for a beer but that ain't old is it - many a fine tune .... and all that) - and to link it to the thread I'm just letting off steam, if 'ee looks at the rest of this message I'm entitled, see!

 

I'm afraid safewalrus that I am of Yorkshire breeding,even if i tried my english would never live up to the scrutiny of the southerners!!

So in my ''Yorkshire'' English,rather than pidgin English i will try to converse in the best of my abilities.

(translated for the american friends ''i cant help it''!)

Back to the thread anyway...I agree with you artemis,American launches were of a more robust construction,but so are modern US cars compared with european ones,perhaps it is with the american attitude that to have a machine that you can throw a bucket of oil now and then and just open the regulator is far more satisfying than a bespoke design of boat that is tailored to the customer.
This is no more evident than in the catalogue of prolific boatbuilders Simpson and Strickland where they say in no uncertain terms that thay will biuld what the customer wants,where as Hereshoff for example built boats that had good performance,good economy,good looks and good accomodation for passengers.
On the other hand english boatbuilders were quite happy to change one of these variants at the expense of another,for example more speed-less economy or more accomodation-less speed etc etc.

The boat that i have designed,as i said before is 8ft long.Its beam is 12'' at 6'' past 'midships.
It has oak frames-.25'' x 3/8'',.25'' x 1/8'' cedar strip planking.
It has a straight stem.
Teak is used for the stem,cabin and engine compartment,doors,cupboard frames.

The hull design i have thought up is very beautiful even if i say so myself,having a lovely fair hull upto widest beam,then tapering off to a 7'' wide,slanted,wine glass shaped transome.

i have made the brass rudder myself-2 1/2'' x 3 1/2''.

i propose using a 100mm x 30mm prop.

the steam plant i will use is a side-fired locomotive type boiler coupled to a Stuart Turner twin launch engine,a very accurate model of a launch engine.

i'm intersted to know about your experiences in boatbuilding?
have either of you built a model/miniature launch?
have either of you built a full-size launch?
if so was it a standard elliott bay product or something special (not to say elliott bay are badly designed or anything but thery arent particularly reflective of past glorys in the steamboat heritage in my eyes!there trple is pretty though)

plenty to read through there i'm sure,tell me to slow down for you 'experienced' ones!

greg

 

Lots of worthwhile questions Jeff.

Hope you will post some pics of your model - it sounds very interesting. Rather like the "slipper" launches (both steam and gasoline) of years gone by, although if one looks at some of Phil Bolger's designs you'll probably find something very close.

I've built (or rebuilt) for myself (or others) a number of steam launches varying from 18' to 26' loa. Most of the launches around the US that have proportions simlar to what you have mentioned tend to not have "wineglass" transoms - but are very "speedy". Two come to mind: Ed Haas' Pegasus and Wesley Harcourt's Wayward Belle. I can "dig up" some pics or websites if you're really interested.

Side fired locomotive boilers tend to be "top heavy" and were not used much except in riverboats - but a modification, termed "gunboat boiler", was.

The Elliott Bay launch design is VERY typical of what was manufactured on the east coast of the US in the late 1800s. Unfortunately Elliott Bay's adherence to "authenticity" has resulted in a design that is VERY "wet" (takes a lot of "spray" over the bow in even a 6" "chop"), albeit sturdily built. Don't even think about their triple expansion engine unless you are a "master machinist, tool and die maker"

 

Greg

Which part of Yorkshire? ' Brid' man myself moved down here 'cos it makes me look intelligent? that got ya! Back in the fifties and sixties Yorkshire had one of the better schooling systems, you mean it's changed?

 

thanks aertemis,if you could dig up some pic's that'd be a great help in seeing how other people have interpreted the sleek hull design.

im afraid i dont have a digital camera as of this moment,but hopefully i will have one soon and then i can upload some pic's for you.

i know that proplems can arise from having a loco' boiler's weight,but the design i have drawn up will have the bearers holding the weight below waterline,it also has a shallow but wide firebox and is mounted at the widest point of the boat,the engine also acting as a stabiliser beeing mounted practically keel depth,i am also hoping to incorporate a water tank as ballast and to act as a filter for the injectors and feed pump.

and i have to agree about the elliot triple', it has to be one of the most 'interesting' engine casting sets(if you can call it a set) available!

well how 'bout that then,just a few miles up the coast from you 'walrus,im from whitby,but i now live in york.

the schooling is just as good,but the dialect is just as 'unique'!

in my opinion moving south from brid' does anything but make you look intelligent!you have my full sympathies living south of the divide!just joking, cornwalls a lovely place,i'm a lake district obsescive i'm afraid and would like to move there in the future.(not least because you have unlimited boating on your doorstep!)

which part of cornwall do you live in now?

i understand artemis has launch-building experience,but have either of you built engines for a launch?

 

A "locomotive" boiler with a wide, squat firebox is certainly approaching a "gunboat" boiler, so you should be OK in that respect.

I've helped rebuild a number of engines (one that almost amounted to a "build"), but don't have a machine shop of my own.

 

i see,thats good,what is the difference between a loco and a gunboat then,the style of firebox or are the tubes different aswell?

ive tried to find designs for gunbat boilers but i havn't benn successfull so far.

 

A gunboat boiler is similar to a locomotive boiler, except the furnace fully encloses the fire, there is no opening at the bottom of the furnace to dump ashes. Small gunboat boilers have circular furnace, similar to a scotch marine boiler. Fire tubes run forward from the furnace tubesheet to the front tubesheet, same as a locomotive.