Stand up paddle analogue out of pipes

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by HowAppropriate, Jun 29, 2014.

  1. HowAppropriate
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    HowAppropriate New Member

    Hi,

    I hope people on here will not feel insulted by this, I can see that this website is all about proper boats and there isn't much sympathy towards boatbuilding with pipes. I'll just assume that stand up paddles can be assimilated to boats by some stretch of the imagination. And for the purpose of having a small device to stand on, I think pipes can be entirely sufficient.

    To be candid, I want to get onto the stand-up-paddle train, but I want to feel smarter than everyone else and not pay the price for a proper SUP. I expect to use the device on my placid lake and the gently flowing river. Nothing fancy. It just needs to float a 100kg and be reasonably maneuorvable. Manoverablue. You know.
    I know there is a whole lot of lore from the surf world about making boards out of foam. I'll look into that if the pipes turn out to be a pipe dream.

    I know the pipe design works, I've seen it around, I've even used one - bamboo pipes that one, but there were others out of some sort of plastic.

    The first question is, is it worth it money wise? Considering the cost of pipes out of some sort of plastic that can withstand water, and whatever's needed to fit them together, will I be able to smugly look down on all the rich kids with their costly SUPs?
    Second question: can a such a device be reasonably transportable? Light enough to be carried by hand? What size will it be, minimally?
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Nobody needs to feel insulted by your thoughts or your projects.
    I would like to answer your second question, at least me, I want to be nice, but I need you to tell me how many hands you think you can use (not a joke, and I know that there are two per person).
     
  3. HowAppropriate
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    HowAppropriate New Member

    How many persons

    Thanks tansl,

    I guess two hands - something I can carry myself. If on the lake I can just leave it at the same place, but on the river I would have to lug it around to some form of transportation.
     
  4. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member


    Hope this helps.

    PC
     
  5. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Might I suggest skin-on-frame with a pipe frame? That way it will be easier to achieve a fair surface, making it easier to push around, and it could be lighter than if you were depending on pipes alone for floatation. Bending loads (torsion) would be a concern as is common with unwelded pipe frames (I'd assume you were using PVC) but it might be possible to address that by using a latticework of taunt strips to help distribute loads. Essentially, using the construction methods for kayaks with some substitution for a wood frame.
     
  6. HowAppropriate
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    HowAppropriate New Member

    PC: the information about size definitely helps. Regarding the draw of SUPing, I would say it's the closest you can come to walking on water, and something primitive - just you and a sliver of something and water all around you.
    The rich kids will probably say it's awesome because it tones your body so you look cool on instagram.

    Rurudyine: good point, but I'm quite fond of the idea of fitting together a bunch of pipes. I have seen various pipeframe kayak designs, I'm sure they make sense but it seems like a lot of work for a little SUP...
     
  7. Turnpoint
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    Turnpoint Junior Member

    I am a convert to sup myself and love how easy it is to get out on the water... And once your on the water you can glide over the shallows and see a lot more than you could from any other water craft. I just built my first board and am working on a second. The materials could be as cheaper than pipes--- so makes sense to make one properly. EPS foam (styrofoam) , half gallon of epoxy and 15 yards of glass is all you need. There are countless videos on YouTube to learn the steps to shaping and laminating. The materials are cheap--iit just takes some time. If you don't want to surf waves with it then the shape is not that critical (I have paddled some inflatables that are basically a thick slab and there is not much difference between them and a well refined shape). I found the process of building my sups to be very enjoyable.
     
  8. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think that the most important question is whether you want to feel smug and show of in front of "the rich kids" or do you want a proper board. Styrofoam and epoxy is a cheaper and better way of building it. Also, you can use styrofoam, glue paper over it and then laminate with polyester.
     
  9. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Rurudyne,

    I like the idea which could possibly produce the world's lightest SUP, if done with a carbon fiber frame. Maybe a single welded outer pipe frame forming a closed loop using torsion wound CF. Then add some kind of pressurized airtight skin.... Maybe the twisting and bending loads could be handled with the special CF winding and floating support? Certainly a unique head turner, but not cheap in time or $.

    Curious if SUPs can be used in unprotected non-flat water. Do they convert to surf boards in wind and waves?

    PC


     
  10. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    plastic pipe catamaran could be built and make it work for stand up paddle board, but that would not be the cheapest way to go. Plastic pipe is not that cheap, espcially large enough to float a person and strong enough so it will have some structure (plastic pipe is not very rigid unless it is thick walled, heavy and expensive). I suspect it would be hard to get it to turn as well.

    I have thought about making a paddle board using the already mentioned skin-on-frame method, just for grins. It would be very cheap and very light. It could built it for about $60 if I bought everything, if you can salvage much of the parts and lumber, it could be done for much less. rip stringers and use some solid swan frames about 4 or 5" deep at about 18" spacing, screw the stringers to them, stretch some polyester skin over it and paint with Acrylic or oil based paint (polyurethane floor finish makes a tough sealant, use 6 or 7 coats, and than color coat it if you want after). It should weigh in at about 15 or 16 lbs.

    I could likely build something like that in about 6 to 8 hours. Just copy the shape and size from a popular factory model. Only difference it would be "hard chine" and you would want a place to stand on it, either 1/4" plywood or extra closely spaced stringers on the top sides on the frame, you just skin over it. Use some friction paint or add some fine aggregate to the paint on the top side where you will be standing.

    I personally do not care for the stand on-top paddle boards, so I would not build one. (yes, I have used them several times, not impressed...why stand and have to concentrate on balance when you can sit in a kayak and relax, go much further for far less effort?). Though some day I might consider building a skin on frame sit-on-top kayak that could also be used as a paddle board, but not anytime soon.
     
  11. HowAppropriate
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    HowAppropriate New Member

    Thanks for all the replies guys. Price does make one of the requirements, and I can see that those pipes are not all that cheap. Still, such a device would be considerably cheaper than a finished board.

    For consideration, what combination of diameter, length and pipe number do you think would be required?

    True, it would make more sense to build a foam-and-resin board.
     
  12. Waterwitch
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    Waterwitch Senior Member

    Yes SUPs are used in channel crossings from one Hawaiian island to another. The entire length of East and West Coast of the US has been paddled by people in SUPs.
     
  13. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Petros,

    After reading your post it occurred to me that what we are talking about may be fairly compared to snowshoes where the normally wooden frame is made ridgid by a shrunk tight lattice of raw hide. I know that raw hide strengthened seats are used for some craftsmen made canoes ... so, could the standing platform be made with raw hide latticework (kept dry by virtue of being sealed up by the skin) rather than with plywood?

    Additionally, it occurs to me that some torsional and static load strength could be obtained with lighter PVC pipe (or wooden battens) by modifying the basic shape to have wing-like structures which were kings truss in structure at the bow and stern and open arches flanking where the seated paddler's legs would dangle. A bundle of three or seven thinner pipes may be stronger than a larger single pipe for said arch and would extend to form some of the truss elements. The wings would need to be canted upwards, say by 20 to 30 or so degrees, to work structurally.

    Edit, now here's a twisted thought: what of a wicker work structure under the skin? Wicker is flexible under load and can recover its shape. Obviously it would work for a lightly loaded round or near round oval platform, but can it be made with enough longitudinal strength for a conventional SUP shape?
     
  14. alan white
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    alan white Senior Member

    Imagine enough pipe to hold about 600 lbs of water if filled. You'll soon realize that a pair of very large diameter pipes will be the only size to make a two pontoon "board" from. Calculate the length of such a thing based on that large (8"?---10"?) diameter.
    Then calculate cost and weight. It may be that you won't easily lift it. I'm thinking PVC but maybe there're other material choices.
    Probably way too heavy and cumbersome (trailer?!). Or if of a light material, maybe very expensive.
     

  15. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member


    Yes - the Coracle's were very round for that reason, but you would need a 'spacer' running down the centre to avoid the pushed in centre of the hull I guess.

    It seems like a lot of work for a paddleboard - inflating an air mattress inside would be easier.
     

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