Stainless fuel lines prohibited?

Discussion in 'Diesel Engines' started by Stumble, Dec 9, 2013.

  1. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    The US representative to the ISO for boat standards is ABYC, which represents not only the industry but the Coast Guard. For years now the emphasis has been to harmonize the standards and in many respects they are. The US (through the Coast Guard) has a memorandum of understanding with the EU concerning recreational boats imported and exported. Of course there are some differences but for the most part, fuel, electrical, flotation, ventilation, and safe loading are the same. The standards for outboard safe horsepower are different. ISO uses a collision avoidance test. The US still uses the formulas in the CFR. But they actually aren't far off from each other and in some ways their's is stricter.
     
  2. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    stainless is like a hot women
    looks shiny can do a great job but one day its gunna bite you
     
  3. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    I'd prefer the woman any time of day or night:D
     
  4. nkurb
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    nkurb Junior Member

    So - just to clarify. Because these standards do not apply to recreational vessels with inboard diesels, stainless steel fuel lines are allowed in these particular vessels? Anyone know the standards for commercial vessels?
     
  5. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    In the USA:
    Vessels carrying six or less passengers for hire follow the same rules as recreational boats. Vessels carrying more than 6 passengers but under 100 gross tons are subject to Title 46 CFR Subchapter T. It has been a long time since I took a course in Subchapter T rules,
    but I looked up the applicable section: here it is:
    Note the last paragraph for vessels carrying 12 passengers but more than six. the bolding is mine.

    § 182.455
    Fuel piping.
    (a) Materials and workmanship. The materials and construction of fuel lines, including pipe, tube, and hose, must comply with the requirements of this paragraph.
    (1) Fuel lines must be annealed tubing of copper, nickel-copper, or copper-nickel having a minimum wall thickness of 0.9 millimeters (0.035 inch) except that:
    (i) Diesel fuel piping of other materials, such as seamless steel pipe or tubing, which provide equivalent safety may be used;
    (ii) Diesel fuel piping of aluminum is acceptable on aluminum hull vessels provided it is a minimum of Schedule 80 wall thickness; and
    (iii) when used, flexible hose must meet the requirements of § 182.720(e) of this part.
    (2) Tubing connections and fittings must be of nonferrous drawn or forged metal of the flared type except that flareless fittings of the non-bite type may be used when the tubing system is of nickel-copper or copper-nickel. When making tube connections, the tubing must be cut square and flared by suitable tools. Tube ends must be annealed before flaring.
    (3) Cocks are prohibited except for the solid bottom type with tapered plugs and union bonnets.
    (4) Valves for gasoline fuel must be of a suitable nonferrous type.
    (b) Installation. The installation of fuel lines, including pipe, tube, and hose, must comply with the requirements of this paragraph.
    (1) Gasoline fuel lines must be connected at the top of the fuel tank and run at or above the level of the tank top to a point as close to the engine connection as practicable, except that lines below the level of the tank top are permitted if equipped with anti-siphon protection.
    (2) Diesel fuel lines may be connected to the fuel tank at or near the bottom of the tank.
    (3) Fuel lines must be accessible, protected from mechanical injury, and effectively secured against excessive movement and vibration by the use of soft nonferrous metal straps which have no sharp edges and are insulated to protect against corrosion. Where passing through bulkheads, fuel lines must be protected by close fitting ferrules or stuffing boxes. All fuel lines and fittings must be accessible for inspection.
    (4) Shutoff valves, installed so as to close against the fuel flow, must be fitted in the fuel supply lines, one at the tank connection and one at the engine end of the fuel line to stop fuel flow when servicing accessories. The shutoff valve at the tank must be manually operable from outside the compartment in which the valve is located, preferably from an accessible position on the weather deck. If the handle to the shutoff valve at the tank is located inside the machinery space, it must be located so that the operator does not have to reach more than 300 millimeters (12 inches) into the machinery space and the valve handle must be shielded from flames by the same material the hull is constructed of, or some noncombustible material. Electric solenoid valves must not be used, unless used in addition to the manual valve.
    (5) A loop of copper tubing or a short length of flexible hose must be installed in the fuel supply line at or near the engines. The flexible hose must meet the requirements of § 182.720(e).
    (6) A suitable metal marine type strainer, meeting the requirements of the engine manufacturer, must be fitted in the fuel supply line in the engine compartment. Strainers must be leak free. Strainers must be the type of opening on top for cleaning screens. A drip pan fitted with flame screen must be installed under gasoline strainers. Fuel filter and strainer bowls must be highly resistant to shattering due to mechanical impact and resistant to failure due to thermal shock. Fuel filters fitted with bowls of other than steel construction must be approved by the Commandant and be protected from mechanical damage. Approval of bowls of other than steel construction will specify if a flame shield is required.
    (7) All accessories installed in the fuel line must be independently supported.
    (8) Outlets in gasoline fuel lines that would permit drawing fuel below deck, for any purpose, are prohibited.
    (9) Valves for removing water or impurities from diesel fuel in water traps or stainers are permitted. These valves must be provided with caps or plugs to prevent fuel leakage.
    (c) Alternative procedures. A vessel of not more than 19.8 meters (65 feet), carrying no more than 12 passengers, with machinery powered by gasoline and a fuel system built in accordance with ABYC H-24 (incorporated by reference; see 46 CFR 175.600 ), or 33 CFR 183, subpart J, or with machinery powered by diesel fuel and a fuel system built in accordance with ABYC H-33 (incorporated by reference; see 46 CFR 175.600 ), will be considered as meeting the requirements of this section.
     
  6. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Goes to show that if you are thinking of building a boat for export to the US , it would be wise to carefully study the fuel tank and plumbing regulations.

    Imagine how expensive it would be to tear all that stuff out and replace with regulation equipment.
     
  7. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    182.455 a 1 i: seamless steel pipe or equivalent.
    - so, again, stainless can be used in this case?

    What is the formal legal-language term for "total mess"?
     
  8. jonr
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    jonr Senior Member

    > Tube ends must be annealed before flaring.

    Does copper tubing work harden under normal use/vibration such that it has to be annealed when re-flaring tubing in an existing system?
     
  9. nkurb
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    nkurb Junior Member

    Stainless steel could certainly be termed 'equivalent'.... I guess?

    We need the person who wrote this to clarify what they actually meant...
     
  10. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    If a boat is being built for export to the US, and it gets a CE, then it will probably pass through customs with flying colors. The only thing needed would be a valid US HIN. That is the responsibility of the importer. This is for recreational boats.

    If you are intending to import boats for commercial use it's a whole different ball game. Then you run up against the Jones Act. It prohibits foreign built vessels being used in Coast Wise trade. This includes passengers for hire. Exceptions have been made but they are handled on a case by case basis.

    The other thing a person building boats for commercial use needs to know is that anything that is an inspected vessel needs to have plans for the vessel submitted to USCG Marine inspection before the vessel is built. 6 pack boats are not inspected vessels but boats carrying 12 or more up to 100 gross tons are. It's a long arduous process. I don't know if 7-12 passenger boats are considered inspected vessels.

    not very likely. Probably written by some bureaucrat like me, or some ensign right out of OCS. In fact it will be interpreted by the Marine Inspection Office in the Sector where the boat will be certified and inspected. Which is why you hear complaints about lack of consistency in how regulations are interpreted by the inspector.
     
  11. nkurb
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    nkurb Junior Member

    As an interesting side note, the Boat Safety Scheme (UK entity) lists stainless as OK within their chapter on Fuel Systems. It would pass their examination apparently...
     
  12. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    yes then cracks, I dont like it anywhere on a boat.
     
  13. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    didnt learn much after the Comet did they..only joking
    If a stray current goes through stainless its finished
     
  14. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    As I noted above, Class has no problems. Here is an excerpt from LR:

    LR Steel pipes.jpg
     

  15. nkurb
    Joined: Dec 2013
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    nkurb Junior Member

    You'd have to work pretty hard, and be pretty dumb to have a current running through your fuel lines.

    Either end of ones solid fuel lines should be finished with flexible hose anyways. Avoids vibration issues. Also avoids such electrical issues.
     
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