stability with speed

Discussion in 'Stability' started by griff10, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    Containers? You mean, steel commercial containers floating around hitting your ship? Have you hit any sleeping whales? Or icebergs? I prefer warm tropical climates. So, I need a boat that can sail anywhere if need be, but not specifically into icy waters. You seem to have great liking of nasty waters. Have you tried North Pacific around Alaska in the winter or North Atlantic? Personally, I wouldn't go there unless I absolutely had to go there. The fiberglass boats that you make ... are they any good or just commercial junk? Of course, you are absolutely right that for your purposes you need a metal ship. But can you get nuclear power on non-Russian icebreakers?
     
  2. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    I almost forgot. I did see a tri-maran sailing in rough ocean, it was some kind of circumnavigation race. It was fast and seemed stable. It's main hull was large, and two other hulls ... one on each side .... were there more for support? So, such a boat is also not good? Can it even capsize? I know catamarans capsize easy, but they don't have a good center like a tri-maran. Any thoughts on that?
     
  3. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    ANY vessel - and i mean it - can capsize!
    from the smallest monohull to the biggest trimaran... heck - even tankers (yes the big floating ilands) may capsize... it is just a question of the conditions and/or human errors...

    concernig containers:
    you will find those obstacles all over the seas... concentrated along the commercial ship-routes... you do not need to venture as far as the northatlantik... the numbers in the atlantik along the passat-route to the south are probably in the hundreds and still floating around - most of them semisubmerged like icebergs or fully submerged and floating just below the waterline...
    they are the nastiest things one may encounter on an atlantic crossing along the comfortable bare-foot route...

    beeing in a steel yacht helps a lot if hitting one of those!
    they probably rip open any hull build in anything else...
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest


    Whats that for a nonsense? Nuclear power?

    Yes I lost a boat once, hitting something. Still do´nt know what, but sure it was something rugged. (either container or submarine)
    The boat was a 53´Hatteras, but sure every other plastic brand would have fallen apart in the same way. She went under the horizon in less than 20 seconds. I had just enough time to come from the fly to the maindeck, my mate to come from saloon to maindeck, then we were in the water already. It happened halfway between Mallorca and the Bonifacio Strait, our speed was about 16kn. Due to a sailing boat nearby we were rescued within a few minutes. They heard the impact and the engines dying in a second, then our lights went off suddenly. Good luck for us.

    When the higher latitudes are definetively not your cruising grounds you are probably better underway with a wood epoxy built and a ss reinforcement at the bow area. Wood is the far superior insulator (Aluminium the worst). On the barefoot routes the heatload below deck is a severe problem adding much to crew fatigue. Fatigue is one of the most underestimated problems on passagemaking.

    Yes I have some affinity to severe conditions, and the North Sea / North Atlantic are familiar waters. (they provide more than enough, and sometimes more than I like, of these conditions)

    Although I am very fine with tropical waters too, palms can get boring after a while.

    I definetively will not go aboard a multihull for more than a afternoon trip in nice conditions. (even then I do´nt like the boats movement)

    Which sort of statement would you like to hear from a boatbuilder? That I am building "commercial junk"?

    Take it as it is and find your own conclusion about it. I am building in Wood Epoxy AND in Vinylester (GRP)from 32m upwards, the latter has advantages, for the builder!
    And my private boats are either steel or Aluminium built (and icegoing).


    Regards
    Richard
     
  5. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    You are lucky to be rescued so fast when your boat sank. Good for you. Is there an instrument that would help, some kind of a sonar to show you what's under water? Yeah, Russians use nuclear icebreakers and submarines, supposed to have a lot of power and go on for long time. I heard they do tours of the poles. I was involved with wall street, never did any junky things myself, I have standards. I was always management due to my MBA in Finance from elite university. But there were plenty of analysts and brokers pushing dot.coms (junk) as prime investments yet privately we all knew dot.coms would go down. I even left my job to start my own businesses because I was asked to falsify some reports by my superiors to make things appear more attractive. So, I guess what I meant .... since you seem to have low opinion of fiberglass, what would be the quality of your boats on scale 1 to 10, ten being the best. Or do you think all fiberglass are junk type of boats, even your own? Just an opinion would do.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Not on the open board mate! When I commit suicide I do it a more sophisticated way!

    Not all fiberglass boats are plain junk, though the advantage, as I repeatedly said, is on the builders side, not on the customers. A customer choosing voluntarily a GRP boat is a inexperienced or misinformed one. Or both.......

    I am not talking about the average speed boat, dockside queen, or bass boat, I am talking what you required, a passagemaking yacht!
     
  7. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    You right, it all comes back to the use of the boat. Well, I stand by my use requirements, I just have to find the right design, material, and builder to make one. However, there is one more boat I am interested in building as well. It's one of those offshore racers, for local use. Miss GEICO is one of them, double engines, catamaran based speedboat, over 100 mph top speeds, looks like a sports car on water. I am trying to figure out what engines I would need and again ... hull material. Maybe aluminum or fiberglass? It needs to be light weight. That's all I really need and want, two boats. One passagemaker, one speedboat. I already bought some software for possible designs. Probably going to take some time to figure everything out. Yeah, if it is your primary business, I guess talking bad about fiberglass in not good. But you are an great experienced sailor, why don't you find some way to design really good fiberglass boats? Shouldn't be too hard for someone like you. That way you can be proud to stand by your product. Or is that just not possible with fiberglass?
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Hmmm,

    I was obviously not clear enough.

    GRP is the weakest of all common boatbuilding materials!

    But it is sufficient!
    And I stand for my products, they are above average quality. (and price)

    So how would one build a perfect boat when he starts with a less than perfect material?

    Your raceboat will most probably be a carbon composite one.
     
  9. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    No, Richard, you are very clear. I am just trying to figure just how bad fiberglass is, that's all. I am still in shock about metal containers. That's like icebergs, no? Dangerous. You mentioned a sinking of your fiberglass boat, 58? Submarine? Do you think maybe it was a poorly build fiberglass boat or perhaps if you were doing 8 knots, not 16 ..... would that have helped? I did see a video of one production fiberglass boat catch on fire. Not pretty. It burned and sank real fast. So, in all your circumnavigations, did you ever come across pirates or hostile boaters? Perhaps commercial ship that almost hit you? How reckless are those other boaters? I know along shores there are always accidents that usually involve drunk power boaters. And ... how do you catch fish in deep sea/oceans? Do you need like 50 meter long line with huge hook to get something or normal fishing rod would get you something? Maybe you know after all your years of sailing.
     
  10. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    I looked at your gallery and ... it was very impressive. You make those boats? Very very beautiful. Makes me want to get a nice wood boat now. They all look like power, though, not sail. I don't suppose you like to sail down to Mediterrenean, South France, North Italy, maybe? There are many beautiful yachts there, yours definitely belong there. Well done. How did you get into making yachts anyway? I thought you was a sailor.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Lots of questions...............

    I do´nt catch fish, I do´nt eat fish! And killing creatures for fun is not a sport imho.
    The boat was a 53´Hatteras, one of the best built fiberglass boats in her days, and by far the most rugged one. (in fact they were so much overbuilt, that almost half of the glass and resin would have been enough)
    Having been much slower would of course have made a difference, but thats speculation. As well as the question of what we hit. There are not many choices though. It was solid enough to rip the boat immediately in pieces, so, it was rock or metal. Rocks do´nt float, means it was either container or submarine. I assume the latter.

    Again: GRP is sufficient for boatbuilding, what else can I say?

    I once came across some "hobby pirates" on the Amazon river. We have shown our shotguns (they were allowed for skeet shooting onboard) and they trolled away.
    In almost ALL countries around the world one needs a license for operating boats. That means if you stay clear from the most crowded US marinas, you will hardly ever find a drunken boater playing his idiotic games.


    No, I´m not a sailor, though I hold a commercial master license. I´m not a boatbuilder by profession either, though I own several yards.
    I am a developer of Holiday resorts by profession.

    I owned just one sailing boat in my life, because I soon found out, that passagemaking is more fun on a motoryacht. (and far cheaper too)
    Though I´m not biased against sailing. I know the fun sailing can provide and understand people doing it. Sometimes I do it too. But my focus is on motoryachts.
    Nice to notice that you like my products, thanks.

    I once bought shares in a Yard but was´nt personally involved, that started my boatbuilding "carreer". That has steadily grown over more than 30 years and I got involved deeper. Now I am reducing it to the roots again, I´m not personally involved any longer.

    One cannot sail the western Med. there is no wind during the Summer. But exploring it with a motoryacht is nice, I agree.
    For marina hopping (as all the charter sailors do), it does´nt matter so much if you carry the sails for nothing or not.
    The eastern Med. is different, there IS wind, sometimes too much. The Meltemi can blow hard, even in Summer.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  12. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    You are amazingly and correctly informative, Richard. I always enjoy talking to smart knowledgeable people with lifetime of experience. I never did any sport fishing in my life. All the fishing I do is because I eat fish, I get hungry, I am a great cook, and I can make nice meals out of fish. I might get hungry in middle of Pacific, you know? I also hate killing animals and I never hunted. Airborne was not human hunting, but defending your country as I see it, just something that needs to be done. And skills acquired are excellent, combat/survival. Well, back to sailing. When you hit your 58, where was the damage? Bottom or side? Is there some international boating license I can get? You products are amazing, what's not to like ... I have seen many boats, high end too, inside as well, and your boats ... they just have excellent creative stylish designs that would rival the best out there. You use mohagany or another wood? Finish is perfect. What can I say? Some guy on this forum said boats look nice in marinas, but you can't boil beans at sea. So, how do you boil beans in rough seas? You weld the pot to the stove or what?
     
  13. nyalex
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    nyalex New Member

    Any thoughts on systems such as solar panels or wind generators placed on a boat? I don't suppose they affect stability and speed ... Would a very strong, large engine installed on a sailboat seriously affect it's sailing ability, stability, speed?
     
  14. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    depends on their mounting position... anything mounted high up on a boat is compromising its stability because it lifts the center of gravitiy - and shift it longitudinal as well - which one should try to avoid...
    on a 40 m boat with 20 t of weight adding a windgenerator/solar panels of 20-40 kg even high up will not have as much influence as on a 9 m 2 tonner...

    a strong engine will not afects its stability since engines are mounted very low and heavy weights in the depth of the hull is no big concern... but it will add weight which is of course not good if your propulsion force comes from wind only...
    http://www.powersail.co.nz/overview.html
    those sailing yachts have 400-500 hp engines which propels them to 18 ktn of speed... do not ask me about their sailing performance rhough...
     

  15. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    how comes that?
    passagemaking powerboats of appropriate length consume hundreds of liter of fuel per hour... how could that be cheaper then sailing? :confused:
     
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