Stability / Uniformity Bollocks!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by trouty, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Well Trouty, the only thing that makes any sense of what you put in this thread is at the start: "like an idiot"
    Seems like on most of your postings you reply with personal attacks and no facts or even pertinent opinions.
     
  2. trouty

    trouty Guest

    Think what you want Gonzo.

    Frankly i don't care.

    The facts are this:-

    1. I've tried to change the system by operating within the system - and making a submission to the new draft stability rules. To the best of my knowlege - no one else here has (yet some feel "qualified to criticise" having NOT made any submission).

    2. My effort is probably wasted.

    3. People DO fish from flats boats here - by exploiting a loophole in the current Survey laws. IF they own a mothership - you can fish paying clients from a bathtub if it will float - as long as it's registered as atender - it has to pass NO STABILITY test whatever nor need it carry any safety gear!
    I might point out - this is in ultra remote shark & crocodile infested waters

    Now - the only criteria - is being RICH enough to own a mothership, so you can have tenders - registered against it..and your in business..

    However - the little guy tryingt o do it legally is discriminated against - when he's trying to offer a better & safer service in better designed built boats.

    To me at least, thats stoopid in the extreme.

    Being me - I rail against such a discriminatory system.

    That no one likes it - understand the problem or agrees with me - i care not one iota...because I know I'm right!

    So - when I see a corrupt system, I either change it or ignore it, or sometimes - ebncourage direct civil disobedience.

    Thats just the ornery sort of fella I am.

    Cheers!
     
  3. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    You are obviously not changing it, since it is still the same.
    Neither are you ignoring it, as all your rantings show.
    And if you were acting in "civil disobidience", you'd be out there fishing in a flats boat with customers.
    Your whinning can get first place awards though.
    What is the minimum size of a mother ship?
     
  4. Robjl
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: Adelaide

    Robjl Senior Member

    How big is a mother ship?..

    That was a relevant question Trouty.
     
  5. trouty

    trouty Guest

    The Minimum size

    a vessel can be to achieve a 2C survey (in order to be classed as a Mutha ship for the loophole on 'tenders' to be exploited) is 7.5 meters (25 ft) under our existing survey rules!

    So - only folks with vessels that size or larger - can then fish the flats out of flats boats registered as tenders.

    Cost to have a 25 ft vessel designed / built - to meet 2C survey requirtements, here, and obtain said survey certificate = no change from $200K

    Then add the cost of a couple US Flats boats ala Hewes / Egret / Hells Bay etc $50K US each (or another 150 K Aus...) and the MINIMUM cost (excluding Fisheries Dept licenses @$35K per zone & Compulsory 10 Mill public liability insurtance etc etc)...means that no one who spends under Half a million bucks can take anyone on a fly fishing charter...

    That my friends is discrimination in it's worst form.

    Civil disobedience, is in order.

    I've already purchased...the jolly Roger flag and I already have the gun...too late to stop me now!

    Cheers!
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    If some people can invest U$500K and make a profit, why can't you?
     
  7. trouty

    trouty Guest

    Sheesh Gonzo - try n keep up will you?

    Gonzo - I've already got the Mutha ship... :rolleyes:

    The point of my submission is this!:-

    To help out the little guy - who hasn't got access to that sorta cash!

    There are a great many small operators hereabouts who dont have access to the sorta cash necessary to be able to exploit the loopholes. Most of em to a man are decent folks - just trying to make a living, and more often that not they are better guides / fishermen, than the "investors" who own these floating gin palaces, and employ non interested staff to run the operation so they can boast they 'own a mother ship & fishing Charter business' to their well heeled friends at their exclusive clubs on a Friday night!

    Just between you n me - I'll always go in to bat for the little guy havin a go.

    Discrimination is discrimination - whether your old / young, male / female, black / white (or brindle). When I see discrimination of this form - hurting good people - I usually make a point of 'getting involved' - and changing the system - It's called the honourable thing to do!

    I don't believe our tourism industry is being helped by such crazy outdated rules, in fact I'd go so far as to say it's being hindered - by a well heeled few with a vested interest in keeping others OUT of the industry!

    Cheers!
     
  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Trouty:
    ...
    As you admit, you are rich. Also, you are inciting others to commit civil disobedience. How about you getting rid of your "Mutha ship" and doing what you tell others to?
     
  9. Thunderhead19
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Location: British Columbia, Canada

    Thunderhead19 Senior Member

    Trouty!
    Admit it, you voted for Bush, right?
    What's the problem with exposing a corrupt, backwards system to the world by posting notices of protest? This could still some allies into action. It could shame the wrongdoers either into smartening up or at least doing a better job of hiding it. I have a similar problem right now, but I can't get any satisfaction until the gag order comes off next year.
     
  10. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    There is no problem if you boneheads can't post a reasonable or intelligent option. Rantings and ravings only turn off people.
     
  11. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    "I have had the opportunity to meet and know people also stating loud and clear the same kind of nonsense, who unluckily have died at sea when their boats sank because of lack of stability..."...and their families got paid nothing by the insurance companies because some clever guy had decided to commit civil disobedience.

    (By the way: I liked much more your other reaction you erased, calling me 'nanny boy', threatening with throwing me over the side of your boat, etc,etc. Why don't you post it again?)
     
  12. mflapan
    Joined: Oct 2005
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    Location: Sydney, Australia

    mflapan Junior Member

    Dear all

    Naval architects have been touchy on the subject of low freeboard due to bitter experience. One such incident is the story of HMS Captain where an experimental ship was built with low freeboard, the capsize of which resulted in the loss of 480 lives.

    The story can be read in Wikipedia at:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Captain_(1869)

    The end of the Wikipedia article contains the following:

    It concluded that the ship was insufficiently stable: at 14 degrees heel (when the edge of the deck touched the sea) the torque due to the buoyancy pushing the ship upright again was just 410 foot-tons (1.2MNm). HMS Monarch, the masted turret ship proposed by the 1865 committee and designed by Reed, and which was also at sea at the time of the sinking, had a righting torque of 6,500 foot-tons (20MNm) at the same angle. The inquiry concluded that "the Captain was built in deference to public opinion expressed in Parliament and through other channels, and in opposition to views and opinions of the Controller and his Department".[5]
     

  13. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    since when do flats guides wear shoes? :D

    Have you considered joining forces with the environmentalists? It has happened a couple of times in the Keys when the Everglades National Park beauracracy has pulled a boner. You need to gain critical mass before the Powers That Be take any notice. Get some kind of organization or better - join one and co-opt it for your purpose. Our guides in the keys are extremely well respected as expert naturalists and the politians and park beaurocrats won't move without getting their organization's input. Can you find one small town that will not throw you in jail and let you get a toe-hold? Have you presented your pro-business beaurocrats with the economic figures from the various Chambers of Commerce here in the Keys? This would pit one government beaurocracy against the other, something that should be done at every oppertunity IMHO. (Because the govt. fellows love to pit competeing interest groups against one another and thus justify doing nothing when no consensus is reached). None of this is likely to change anything, but I felt like venting a bit myself. Here's something that may work-

    Host a bonefish tounament. Guarantee TV coverage. Invite (idiot) and all his pals.
     
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