Stability / Uniformity Bollocks!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by trouty, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. trouty

    trouty Guest

    :rolleyes:

    Like an idiot, I fell for the post hgereabouts a while ago saying we should submit our thoughts about the new draft Aussie Stability criteria being developed, by NMSC (National Marine Safety Committee), so I thunked good 'n hard bout it, and penned a submission.

    Why did I know - it was going to be wasted effort?

    Because I been there n done that before.

    Why is it - when we want to re-do our rules - the darn beurecrats give up, when it's all too hard?.

    The issue that I submittted about was basicaly this.

    I'm a fly fishing charter guide.

    In the USA or justabouts anywhere else... I'd buy a boat off the rack from hells bay or Hewes or Egret or Bopne boats ete etc, hang up me shingle and go to work - operating undwer OUPV rules (6 pack license) Operator Uninspected Passenger Vessel.

    The big problem downunder - is our survey rules are anything but uniform!.

    We don't have the OUPV (6 Pack) section of the USL code survey rules.

    Nope, dwn here everythings gotta pass al those centuries old design stability criteria.

    Problem with that is - you need freeboard to do it and lots of it!

    What don't flats boats have?

    Freeboard!

    Why not - because they are designed not too - they would blow all over the place with freeboard, and you'd never pole them anywhere in any sort of wind.

    So - basically - no flats/bay boat can pass survey here.

    Thats it - no fly fishing industry because the beurecrats (and the naval architects, who they should answer too) stuffed it all up.

    So I wrote and told em - they should change it so we can have an industry!

    Freeboard shouldn't be the be all and end all.

    Some boats are actually designed for puposes that require little / minimal freeboard and the survey rules SHOULD have provision for that fact.

    They don't!

    The idiot beaurecrat I wrote to wrote back to say - it was outside the scope of the new Survey rules and his departements jurisdiction etc etc

    Why the hell do they ask for submissions - then ignore the ******** when you take the time and effort to send them exactly what they asked for?

    A pox on their houses I say!

    Stuff them and the sea horse they rode in here on!

    There - I feel better now!

    Stuff em - I'll just break their stupid laws, let em take me to court! Bring it on - I'll come out swingin and take no prosoners!!

    This is gunna get dirty!

    Cheers!:mad:
     
  2. trouty

    trouty Guest

    This is what I'm on about!

    Sorry it's a long read!

    (From most recent backward to original email from me!).


    There you have it all!:) :rolleyes: :(

    Cheers!:mad:
     
  3. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member


    You have a talent for understatement:rolleyes: :D

    steve
     
  4. cyclops
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: usa

    cyclops Senior Member

    Basically all marine safety/ business review agencies are seperating personally chosen boat risks, from, paying money for what I thought would be a very safe trip. Low freeboard boats ARE absolutly MORE DANGEROUS than high free board boats.----------------------- NEW JERSEY, USA, has a couple of fly fishing boats for hire. ALL are NORMAL 6 pack stabil boats. The flats are no place for paying people, when a STRONG squall comes up and they are are freightened out of their minds by the waves breaking into the boat. That is not a fun place to be. They are thinking, and so is the agency, it will be a safe trip. Read the other post here about the ETHAN ALLEN capsizeing.--------------------------------- 6 packs are to be as pleasureable as any other boat in bad weather.
     
  5. trouty

    trouty Guest

    A surfboard?

    A surfboard, has almost no freeboard, but it's neigh on impossible to sink one!

    Freeboard as a measure of vessel safety - is NOT, on it's own, the ONLY adequate measure of "safety".

    Jet skis, hobbie cats, heck you can hire any number of death defying devices to go to sea in and kill yaself, but try 'n make a living conducting fly fishing charters out of a flats boat!.:rolleyes:

    It's OK in th Floriduh Keys - but not here - yet we supposedly have "Uniform"? shipping laws???

    Flats are 4 inches deep - I'll take my chances on a flat in a squall - you can always just get out n walk!:rolleyes:

    How the heck can we fly in Jet planes - in a severe squall - you can't get out n walk - now can you? - but it's OK to fly round in jet planes!:rolleyes:

    The worlds full a sissy W@nkers if you ask me - and they work at Marine Safety branch / NMSC.

    Baseball bat's the answer - knock some fricken common sense into the Bass turds!:D

    Cheers!
     
  6. safewalrus
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Cornwall, England

    safewalrus Ancient Marriner

    Cyclops sorry mate disagree with you on that one, low freeboard can be safe, if coupled with the right conditions - sometimes called a watertight deck! generally Freeboard CAN mean safety but not all the time1 "It's horses for courses" and all that stuff! It's also how you use the stuff - if you only have four inches freeboard you don't go out in a gale in an open boat! If it's a fully sealed deck etc you could get away with it if the other openings are sealed too! Submarines do quite well they tell me!
     
  7. trouty

    trouty Guest

    Safewalrus is right!

    I hate to have to do this - but it seems I have no choice.

    The poling skiff - has no freeboard so would be unsafe to fish from if we believed the survey rules these beurecrats and naval architects foisted upon us, yet the vessel with the fancy orange SPV sticker - is safe to carrry paying passengers - because it won't sink!:rolleyes:

    For crying out loud - the Surveyed boat sank after a windsquall while tied up in a protected river, thanks be to god, no one was actually OUT on the thing when the weather hit - or there might have been loss of life!

    Yet - it was "surveyed" and so apparently "safe" for paying passengers!:confused:

    Our survey rules here are all bollocks - and when told so - the authorities don't want to know about it!.

    In that instance- my only fall back position is - ignore the Bass-turds and do whatever you want - direct civil disobedience is the answer!

    Stuff em and the sea horse they rode in here on!:)

    Cheers!
     

    Attached Files:

  8. trouty

    trouty Guest

    What - no one likes my Photo's?

    I thought they were very poigniant!

    Of course - the question they raise is this:-

    Is freeboard - necessarily a good arbiter of vessel safety?

    Why are stability rules for vessel survey so anal about freeboard n their stability calcs? Without freeboard you can't pass period!

    [​IMG]

    Whats wrong with the idea - of someone doing a charter on the flats with a vessel such as this?

    Why do our existing rules, dictate you must own a "mothership" in order to register such vessels as "tenders" and then fish from those?

    Surely - it would be better to ensure the vessels were carrying the appropriate gear in the first place - a tender has to carry MINIMAL safety gear.....

    This is all wrong - and it's the responsibility of th Naval architects who work with the system - to FIX the anomalies, at times such as this - when the rule sare being reviewed.

    Least thats how I see it- why should the layman be trying to fix these sorts of stuffups?

    Got me beat!

    Cheers!
     
  9. cyclops
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: usa

    cyclops Senior Member

    OK, Trouty. I will accept that freeboard on a Super Tanker, is just as safe, as the high freeboard on modern cruise ships. :)
     
  10. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    I suppose you may need to start canvassing votes and run for whatever office makes decision in these matters.
     
  11. trouty

    trouty Guest

    Damn Freeboard

    :D The only freeboard I wanna hear about from now on - is free board (and lodging) for me an a few fishing buddies at the Bonefishing resort lodge in the Florida keys, where I can legally hire a guide with a flats boat & go catch a few bonefish.

    Dammnit I got bonefish in my own homewaters - but you know 0 I could die of old age before I'm allowed to go catch em with paying clients.

    This worlds screwed, no wonder the towel heads wanna blow us all up - there are days I question whether their motives arent right and we are the screwed up ones!

    Who needs towel heads to destroy our economy - we have beaurecrats paid a LOT of $ to do just that for them!:rolleyes:

    Politics be dammned - carry a ruddy big baseball bat is my answer - and come out swingin!:D

    Cheers (or should that be "thwunk...ohh - theres another one, thwunk!!...look at that - home run!):p :cool:
     
  12. Thunderhead19
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Location: British Columbia, Canada

    Thunderhead19 Senior Member

    What's a baseball bat? Is that like a hockey stick? I'm starting to think that the hockey stick has probably contributed greatly to Canadian Government policy making. On the one hand, if a guy needs a "tune up" a hockey stick does the job quite well. On the other hand, if a guy gets hit in the head too many times with one, a certain amount of irrational behaviour creeps into his daily schedule. Maybe you Aussie drongos should stop beating the living %#@! out of each other.

    anyway.....while flats boats don't have any freeboard (or limited) why not develop something like a great bloody barge
     
  13. trouty

    trouty Guest

    Not a bad thought Thunderhead

    A ruddy great Fly Fishing barge, bout the size of two football fields - I cantake groups of 36 fly fishers at one time and we can all crochet flylines on our backcasts!:rolleyes: :D

    Heck - why not -the beaurecrats would probably approve of that!:eek:

    Cheers!
     
  14. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    In my professional career I have had the opportunity to meet and know people also stating loud and clear the same kind of nonsense, who unluckily have died at sea when their boats sank because of lack of stability. Very clever.
     

  15. trouty

    trouty Guest

    People like you Guillermo

    Write what you want Guillermo - I won't see it - you have the dubious honor of being the very first to permanently make it to my ignore list!

    Cheers & Well done
     
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