Stability of the Bounty Replica

Discussion in 'Stability' started by Earl Boebert, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. callering
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    callering Carl

    I saw the interview with the machinist. He claimed that things were not in order. Generators/pumps gave up.

    I have been a tall ship captain since 1970 and it is "forbidden" to take a leaking ship out to sea- simple as that! The water has ability to transport a lot of debris that can clog the pumps. No matter the pump protection netting that all of you guys have on your boats and ships- not?
    Old wooden ships soften up in the joining structures and planks start to move more. The caulking goes out easier.

    By the way- look at the pictures and how Bounty was dismasted. The two topmasts the 3 middle masts and the bowsprit. She looks like she has rolled. And the red spot in the aft mast- Walbridge? I believe so.
    Carl
     
  2. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Carl,

    Who are "you guys" and where is the claim of having this "protection netting".

    Why the attitude?

    "We" didn't sink the Bounty.

    Did we?

    What ship(s) do you Captain?
     
  3. callering
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    callering Carl

    When you point fingers, remember that three of them point back at you.. In this case I mean myself. I remember once in 1974 on a wooden ship that I had not checked the pumps. They all clogged and I learned a lesson. It was a little mess, but we just about made it to safeway.
    It is important not to forego the investigation (as far as that reaches..), but I agree with my senses that all was not in order on Bounty. Further, the call to push her to Florida raises my neck hairs.
    Our attitude to good seamanship should encourage new captains and crew to say "NAY" when the ship is not in absolutely seaworthy condition and stay in port.
    Tom, we all feel responsible in one way or the other when a tragedy like this occurs. We must be part of the ambition to make way for safety.

    Svanen af Stockholm is my sailing ship, a 74 ft staysail schooner of steel- this with a very good stability curve. I pressed her down to 75 degrees twice. A bit scary,I must admit. On a tack in a good breeze she takes water on deck at 20,5 degrees list. 26 tons ballast, centerboard, 14 ft beam. 8 knots in 10-11 knots of wind. 3300 SF sail. Displaces 75 tons. Academic rule is 1/3 ballast.
    Then I have a 63 ft steamer, Nemo with currently poor stability since under restoration. 6 tons(!) of batteries will help later. It will have part electric drive.
    Then I have former swedish king Oscar II:s launch ( he died in 1907)with diesel and electric propulsion. This has a negative stability curve the wrong way- it is too stiff which makes travelling unconfortable at times. I will send a pack of batteries up on the roof in vented mahagony boxes and we will be happy.
    A few years ago I restored the full rigged ship AF CHAPMAN (hostel tied to shore). 750 tons of ballast in her now.
    Whoever wants photos- cmr@cmringdesign.se.
    Thankyou.
     
  4. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Interesting.

    Thank you.
     
  5. callering
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    callering Carl

  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I'm surprised this thread is still going. Bounty's history is reasonably well established and she should have sunk years ago, under Turner's ownership, but fortunately, he finally sold her. The boat was destined to suffer this fate, considering her run or owners, regardless of stability curve. She was always in need of serious repair and maintenance, so the eventual summation of a catastrophic event isn't much of a stretch, for a large vessel, kept in this manner.

    Speculation of crew members, who may or may not have a complete grasp on the vessel's overall maintenance requirements is just uninformed folly and nearly worthless in hindsight.

    It's a sin she was lost, but it's not a surprise and was likely well over due, if you count luck. The person ultimately responsible, paid a complete price, so . . .
     
  7. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

  8. Crowsnest
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    Crowsnest Junior Member

    Hi all:
    Im a member of the Spanish Foundation for the Reconstruction of Historical Ships, engaged in the Design, project and construction Dpt. I point that as a presentation and in order for you to know something about me.
    This is not a diagnostic, but an oppinion based in very little and partial information ......
    All I've read above, and everything I've been informed about that accident, is from my Architect & Ships Master point of view a chain of "what must not be done".
    We all know how easy is to make decissions from a chair, at home or at the office, but only having a brief look at any of the last photographs of the Bounty, its easy to realize what the hull state was.
    I've been surprised at the caulking and strakes state that can be seen on those pics. If what can be seen is in that state, I dont want to think on how the inmersed part, rigging, structure .......... could be.
    About the crew, I think a year, and even a couple of months is enough for normal seamen to be able for handling and sailing that ship. But, only if they are duly trained.

    Not duly trained crew + a ship with a very poor maintenance + "foolish" decissions, will lead, sooner or later, any ship to a dissaster, regardless if she is a tall sailing ship or an aircraft carrier.

    Regards
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    This is an old thread and an old story. But for anyone who stumbles into this thread, here is an interesting critique of the vessel and crew as pertaining to their final voyage.
     
  10. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

  11. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

  12. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Hurricane went west. He sailed west into its path.

    Hello? Is anybody home? :rolleyes::confused:
     
  13. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    It appears there was not a complete picture of all of the potential problems before the captain made the decision to head into a major storm.

    the bilge pumps were not working at full capacity, the spare pumps were not tested, the inexperienced crew, known leaks and rot in the hull, but the extent of which was unknown.

    What it came down to however was that the sight glass on the fuel tank broke and all of the fuel to run their engines and generators leaked out. And once out of fuel they had no way to keep up with the water leaking into the hull. Once that was determined, they waited too long to abandon ship.

    I am not familiar with how larger ships systems are designed, but is it normal to have only one fuel tank and one supply system for all of the engines and generators? Aircraft have to have multiple redundant fuel tanks, pumps and systems, is this not true for marine systems as well? This ship was not licensed for commercial transport, but for display, which may explain the lack of redundant systems.

    If you over look the flawed decision to sail into the storm with an aging ship, it seems to me a relatively inexpensive redundant fuel system may have prevented the tragedy. And having an unprotected fragile glass sight gauge on the fuel tank of a pitching ship is a really bad idea. It could have been a lot worse, and much more lives lost had the fuel become ignited after it leaked out into the bilge.

    It is easy to second guess afterwards when all the facts are known, but it seems this kind of decision making, with incomplete information, is what accidents like this are made from.
     
  14. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)


  15. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

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