<split> composite debates (heated remarks)

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by tunnels, Aug 20, 2010.

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  1. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    A professional done handlayup is not as rich as a gun layup. Therefore stronger at the same weight. A bagged or infused layup is even better.

    Bagged and infused panels takes out resin and compresses the fibres right !so the thickness is reduced ! so a thin panel is stronger that a thicker panel ?? so why do we use core materials to make panels thicker ?? .
    Also by taking resin out of the layup it then becomes more brittle because there less resin there to hold the same amount of fibres so the strength goes up ?? that really confusing and dosent make any sense at all !!surely there must be a %of resin that has to be left with the glass to get the full potentual strength for the panel . So less resin is better ! :confused:
    This is all so interesting ! ive never had it explained before !!
    Thank you oh great one !:D
    I feel humbled by your presents !! ;)
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You should tunnels! On your knees!

    And thank you for these very enlightening insights in your FRP knowledge! A juwel, really!:cool:

    You will not mind that I quote that on every other occasion?

    Have you ever heard that a higher glass content makes for a stronger layup? No, you have not!

    You should have skimped on hunting my tail here! You made yourself a clown, and you have again delivered proof of your complete incompetence.

    Thanks again!:p
     
  3. fg1inc

    fg1inc Guest

    Wow! Less resin is better.?!.....? Hello? FRP101
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Not?...;)
     
  5. fg1inc

    fg1inc Guest

    Apex, i was replying to the other esteemed member, it sounded as though he had a question as to which would be better - more resin or more fiber?
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Oh, I understood your post that way, don´t worry! Hence the: ;)

    And I doubt that other member had a question, this statement was pretty clear:

    Not?

    As you said 101 of FRP............

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    I am humbled to get you answer ! So if the resin content is at a absolute minimum it not brittle ? What problems arise from this process What about osmosis ? with VERY HIGH fibre content surely the mosture could travel quicker through the laminate??
    Maybe you can enlighten me about another part of a closely related thing as well tHE LENGTH of the glass strands that Chopped matt is made of ! are longer strands better than the shorter strand ? What about continuos strand matt. could that be good or bad ?? :?: :D
    A good thing about being at the bottom of the learning pile is you dont have to worry about people not knowing less than you and you get all this increadably valuable information and ideas sent your way . :D I look forward to you answer oh great Guru !!:p oops almost forgot Has anyone ever used Carbon fibre Tissue for anything ????what are all those colored mats made or !! Carbon or Kevlar They look really fancy !! specially the multicolored cloths with the unusual weaves !!
    Bye oops again !Why cant just unidirectional be used to bulid boats ?? or hasnt anyone tried it yet ??
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No tunnely,

    you did not get a answer, and you don´t waste my time.

    I keep this new gem above for the records, but I do not give you a free lesson in boatbuilding!
     
  9. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Uni directional !! any one had much to do with it ??

    Why cant just unidirectional be used to bulid boats or hasnt anyone tried it yet ??
    Unidirectional is increadable glass to use and you can do so much with it !!
    Uni carbon is amazing stuff ,just need to get your head around which way to run it to get the best out of it !!
    No doubt our great guru apex1 will have some delightfull indeepth stimulating and charming comments on this subject :mad:
     
  10. susho
    Joined: Dec 2006
    Posts: 88
    Likes: 6, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 78
    Location: the Netherlands

    susho Composite builder

    You confuse strength with stiffness.
    a thin panel could be equally strong as a thicker one, but the thicker panel would be stiffer. In a bagged or infused layup you should add some fibre(or core) to get the same stiffnes, but you'll get a stronger laminate, and somewhat heavier, because resin weighs less then glass.
    you could even go *** far to use resin rich laminates in compression areas, because the resin is far more comression resistant than the fibre is.

    And off course you can use only uni's to build a boat, but using stiched fabrics saves some work.
     
  11. fg1inc

    fg1inc Guest

    Any anomaly in a GRP part is a stress riser. A resin rich area in that part becomes an anomaly and when that panel is stressed the stresses concentrate in the resin rich area and cause failures. GRP parts must be made with as much continuity as possible.
     
  12. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    As usual.........

    You make a false statement: >>>Why cant just unidirectional be used...or hasnt anyone tried it<<<

    and ask others to proof.

    Uni is used to build entire structures since uni entered the market. Though it is rarely sensible to use it exclusively. When just a "beef up" of a section is required to stiffen, one will most probably use cheaper stuff.

    Susho and fg1inc commented on the rest of your drivel, no need to repeat.

    I am by no means a FRP expert, far away from that. In fact I only know about that subject matter what was done or tested in my yards, or what I collected on info when we went from wood/Epoxy to additional FRP lines.
    But even I did prove you wrong on almost every occasion when I came along your so called "advice".

    You might have laid some m² chopped strand, but did never really grasp what you are doing there. Your complete lack of understanding the glass/resin relation shows that very clear again.

    Thank you once more tunnel, to show us so generous and thoroughly how much you really understand about FRP business!

    Nothing.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Thank you Jeff for splitting this off! My repeated appeals not to hijack the other thread remained fruitless.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    aaaahhhhh Come on be nice !!
    Uni is amazing but alot of thought has to go into how its used . A company that manufacted boat for th surf life saving here in NZ was having trouble with there boats simply falling apart . The lay up we what any one would use , first they tried woven glass but didnt last th 4 month season . then they tried stitched and that parted company in a short time as well with all the punishment these boats take from the time they are launched each day till they are cleaned down and put in there shed at night . The managed asked me if i could have a look and come up with a plan to salvage there contract as there were at wits end . First id to see first hand and get in one of these boats to see what the conditions were . After a hour of getting crashed , banged and tossed about like a rag doll i came back to the beach speachless . I was given a free hand to do what ever i wanted to do with no restraints . The boats were heavy as well and they wanted them lightened as well .
    After a bit of thought i came up with using solely uni matt and polyester resin . THE key to all this is the oriantation of the glass !! Made a test panel and asked them to destroy it any way possible . it came back 2 days later just like it went away ! still intact even after a car had been parked on it and 3 guys jumping up and down with the car . The lay up was simply 4 layers of 400 gram uni with a 125 gram csm between the layers , Quite thin and a reasonable weight for it size . Boat one was made and fully equiped , two top life guards took the boat for a blast out into the surf and the typical huge waves we have on our west coast beachs They came back after a hour with grins from ear to ear . The boat got used all the time , every day for a week during the summer and clocked up a lot of hours of use lots more that the others they had . It was taken back to the factory for inspection with a fine toothed comb by a bunch of proffessional life guards . It got a 100% clean bill of health and not one sign if stress could be found om the boat or any part of the internal structure as well .The other point of interest was the glass hull was 1/3 lighter than what they had been using and had been breaking .
    I built a small race boats capable of 100mph using the same thinking , light fast and very durable . Unidirectionall glass will bend a mile before it will gives an inch !! But as i said its the oriantation of the glass thats the key to it all . Also note that only polyester resin was used !! nothing fancy just what was in the factory at the time . Now doing the same job i would use Vinylester instead . Normally the surf boats would be replaced after 2 seasons but the new boats are now doing 4 or 5 seasons and a waiting list of people wanting to buy the old ones .
    Yes apex 1 i am a silly old person that knows nothing in your book just some one thats left a few experts and university people wondering at times .
    Your mouth is your biggest problem and you attatude towards others .
    Live life fast and slow only to take a breath .
    Leave in a few days to take up a contract making 65 , 50 and 43 foot fast powerboats . should be taway for a couple of years i hope or even longer !!Will keep a eye on this site and see if you hae learned anything apart for copy and paste !! :p
     
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  15. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Man you have a attiude problem !! One thing you can do with just a few words is piss people off greatly , have looked at a few posts and see the comments and im not the only one that you rub the wrong way .
    Had a few private emails warning me what you were like and how obnoxous you are and can be !. I hope i never gow old and become like you !!.Keep up the good work !! you are completely predictable , a know it all that really know stuff all at the end of the day !!:mad:
     
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