Specific software taking care of production

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by panterissimo, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. panterissimo
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    panterissimo New Member

    Hi all,
    I'm new to the boat software, so I need one that at the end would give me the dimensions not only of the boat, but of the single part: for example, the side of a wooden boat is generally made of wooden boards, each one havinh a specific length: but when the boat is finished, the board is curved!
    I need to know its native lenght, that will be higher, to cut it, and only after this passage, to curve it.
    So, is there a boat software that can satisfy mu needs?
    Thx in advance to all, please exscuse my english, I'm Alberto, working in Venice Lagoon, Italy.
     
  2. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Welcome to the Forum.

    I think what you are talking about is Computer-Aided Design, which is used extensively, not only for large scale concept drawings but down to the smallest component on the boat.

    In the attached image, I can measure, identify, dimension every little bolt right up to the major aspects of say, the transom.

    It's very common to use these tools, but it requires a lot of practice, and it may be easier to hire an expert in the field.


    draw.png
     
  3. panterissimo
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    panterissimo New Member

    Dear rwatson,
    could you please indicate me one of these software? I guess from your post that it would give me the length of the curved boards..
    Thank you very much!
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    It is not CAD software but CAM and there are severa packages but expensives. It is not only to get measures but many other things and yes you need skills in that matters. PM me it you want more information and examples on what you can get of these softwares
     
  5. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    You can calculate those lengths of curved elements with some integral calculus exercises. If that is not your cup of tea then you can do it the old fashioned way....as follows........

    If the boat is not too large then draw the boat to a large scale such as 3=12 or quarter scale. Lay your spline along the curved edge and mark it carefully at the extreme ends of the planking on the drawing. Simply measure the straightened spline and multiply by the scale factor. If you are careful with your drafting and markings you can measure the exact locations of the stations on your spline. If you are doing a large boat drawing then the scale of the drawing has to be a larger number and so the measurements along the spline are quite critical. The old timers did it well enough. Herreshoff and many others got it right most of the time.
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    But we must bear in mind that the water lines also have curvature and that additional length must be added. That, in the old days, was done knowing that the length measured with a spline in the transversal drawing is, in fact, one of the legs of a right triangle, whose other leg measures the same as the separation between frames. The value of the hypotenuse is approximately the length we are looking for.
     
  7. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    That program is called Rhino. But any Computer-Aided Design (CAD) program should do the same thing.
    The main advantage of Rhino, is that it is only about $US1300
    It will take a while to learn, but the dimensions of boards are easy.

    Here is an illustration of a half hull, with the main panels "Unrolled" flat, like plywood, and one of the edges measured with the DimCurveLength command.

    BoatDim.png
     
  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Alberto, Rhino is an excellent program, cheap, that serves what it is for and nothing else. A shipyard needs a lot more. Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM) package is what you should look for. Perhaps, in a small part of the software package that you need, Rhino could be included, for some specific topic and only for certain parts of the structure.
    I value Rhino very positively but, to develop the construction drawings of a hull, you need, among other things, a very good drawing tool, to easily make the large number of drawings, sketches, 3D and also 2D and, as a drawing tool , you should look for something more complete and more agile.
    Not to mention the parts lists, material relationships, weights and centers of gravity of each piece, definition of the many elements, reinforcements for example, which are not obtained from a flat plate, etc ...
     
  9. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    What you say is perfectly true Tansl, but have a think about what the OP actually asked for.

    "I'm new to the boat software, so I need one that at the end would give me the dimensions not only of the boat, but of the single part: for example, the side of a wooden boat is generally made of wooden boards,"

    I don't see that he could use, or even afford the $10,000 + suite of programs that you are suggesting from what we know so far.
     
  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    With all due respect, because what you have shown us in this forum makes you deserve it, I will refute your comments.
    I have not spoken, so far, of any particular software package so it is not possible to talk about expensive or cheap packages. What I wanted to clarify from the beginning is that, when developing the construction plans of a hull, the designer must generate, in real size, a large number of pieces and reinforcements. A part of these pieces, does not reach 5% of the total, are curved surfaces that must be developed in order to cut them from a flat plate. The rest of the pieces should not be developed. But, in addition, we have the reinforcements, which must also be defined with complete accuracy, not only their dimensions but also the shapes to be given to their extremities. All this involves an enormous work of pure drawing, defining the elements, nesting them in plates for numerical control of the pieces, infinity of sketches for the preparation of reinforcements. Listings, necessary gross material and resulting net material, partial and total weights, centers of gravity. Lists with the descriptions of each element, its properties and with what nexting or sketches it is necessary to elaborate it. Schemes to build partial sub-assemblies and instructions and measures to mount them in larger assemblies. Dimensional control sketches in the previous phases of the assembly, .... I will not continue describing the system because it can be very boring.
    If all that can be done with Rhino, go ahead. Otherwise, there is no more than thinking that the solution is in other software. In my opinion, moreover, Rhino's accuracy and reliability in the development of plates is not desirable for an important construction.
    Here we could talk about prices and that all this is only applicable for large shipyards. But I am in a position to affirm that this is a mistake because the system is applicable, I have experience in it, to small boats and even to pleasure boats.
    The investment may seem excessive but if someone is willing to make it, and gets his shipyard to adapt to these new systems (this is a process that, it must be said clearly, requires effort), he could amortize it with an unsuspected speed, maybe with a couple of constructions, and the reduction of the execution time and the quality obtained wont disappoint anyone.

    (P.S. price ?, much less than 10,000 euros, of course)
     
  11. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    What comments? Like "What you say is perfectly true Tansl"????

    Yeah, a good contradiction.
    Software that does all this magic is going to be well over $10K. Go on - tell us what it is, go on.

    Then you go on to talk about sub-assemblies, nesting, curved surface extrapolation ....

    FFS - this guy has a simple need to figure out the length of a curved plank !!!!

    Now, before you go on with all your nonsense - name me a sophisticated shipyard software package that can be "driven" by someone who is going to have to spend at least 3 months learning a relatively simple package like Rhino?
     

  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    No, rwatson, what I say is not perfectly true. Many of you know that I am often wrong but on this subject I think I have an experience that you do not have.
    It is a great simplification to reduce the question of the OP, "Specific software tacking care of production", to the simple fact of developing the hull plates. But, apparently, you interpret better than me the problem that the OP wishes to solve. If so, I will have no choice but to give you the reason. If not, you will see what you do.
    That is to turn the matter around interestedly and it is not what I have raised. Do not try, please, to deform the dialogues to get reason. The question could be whether there are packages, suitable for small vessels (built by small shipyards or individuals), which are accessible by price. Learning, post-sale aid and other aspects could be taken into account once the first question has been answered.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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