South Korean ferry MV Sewol flips, 1/2 sunk in shallows, people trapped.....

Discussion in 'Stability' started by Squidly-Diddly, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Sewol ferry captain and 3 crew members face murder charges in South Korea | CNN
     
  2. CliffordK
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    CliffordK Junior Member

    Do they have all the equipment to raise the Sewol on standby, not doing anything? If they were concerned about standby cost, they would only bring in the cranes when they are needed.

    Why raise the ship if it costs 10x the value? If it was laid over on its side, would it interfere with the shipping lanes? Can they get all of the forensic evidence they need with the ship underwater? Oil?

    As far as the murder charges, we'll have to wait and see how they progress.

    What were the exact evacuation plans for the Sewol? How did they plan to get all of the life rafts and passengers into the water? I'd say that as much as anything, there was a lack of crew training, and perhaps a missing evacuation plan, which may be as much of a corporate matter as a crew matter. The overloading was likely a corporate and possibly a government issue too. It does seem odd that the crew had time to change clothes in an attempt to blend in with the crowd (unfortunately they left the crowd below deck). Who else would be leaving the bridge? But, they lacked enough wherewithal to even relay the evacuation order to the lower decks.

    No doubt the lower side of the upper deck would have been treacherous as the ship listed with the open railing, had they assembled the passengers there, but in the case with the ship slowly rolling over, it would have been the safest place to assemble the passengers. Of course, normally the upper deck would be about 50 feet in the air, and a pain to evacuate.

    The leadership was lacking. They apparently had 15 crew members huddled in the bridge when most of them should have been tending to the passengers and preparing the life rafts for deployment. Even if some failed, they should have tried them all.
     
  3. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    If a passenger ship has a big heel there is no escape, remember that next time you are on one.
    Not much fixed since the titanic that luckily didnt have a big heel as it when down
     
  4. CliffordK
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    CliffordK Junior Member

    On the Titanic, of course, they tried to lock the gates to prevent the lower deck passengers from getting up to the upper decks, at least so they say.

    On the Sewol, they merely told the passengers to wait for instructions and rescue (which didn't come until it was too late).

    On the Sewol, the roll over was progressive. I'm not sure of the timeline, but as I believe the initial list was 20° or less after the initial turn, then slowly progressed over the next hour to 90°, and greater. Within minutes the crew knew the ship was at risk, and it would have been prudent to move the passengers to a safe place. Even moving to an open air portion of the deck on the high side would have been conducive to rescue (and helping balance the ship). If it would have turned out to be a false alarm, then just chalk it up to drills.

    For those stairs that are parallel with the roll (along the outer portion of the superstructure), they should be easy enough to climb, even at a very steep angle, although getting from the end of one to the beginning of the the next might be problematic.

    Lots of ropes, rope ladders, and knotted climbable ropes would be a handy part of the safety equipment. I'm not sure about the Koreans, but when I was 16, I could have climbed railings like monkey bars, if only one could reach them, and I could do a vertical climb on the right type of climbing rope. Of course, getting hundreds of people moving qukckly along ropes could be difficult.
     
  5. CliffordK
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    CliffordK Junior Member

    What about attaching something like a Kayak Throw Bag to every life jacket with a nice carabiner to attach it to strategically placed eye hooks around the ship.

    [​IMG]

    It wouldn't keep a captain and crew from giving stupid orders, but would give the passengers a fighting chance to climb out of their tomb.

    Perhaps hang a few longer ones on the walls (or in glass cabinets) in strategic areas of the boat.
     
  6. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I think escape froma ship with a big list is quite problamatic if its all covered, you cant lower yourself under the vessel that is about to roll onto you and you cant get off the high side so I guess you can only ride the high side into the water?
     
  7. morkisthatu
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    morkisthatu Junior Member

    Which way do cabin doors swing? I assume inward since swinging into a corridor can be a hazard. When a ship lists severely it must be nearly impossible to open a door on the high side. People and all loose items would be in the way, in addition to gravity. On the low side it must be difficult to get to a door to open it. I noticed in one pic of the crew being rescued a door in the background which was top hinged and must have operated side-to-side. Is that customary on a ship?
     
  8. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Clearly escape from a heeling ship is an issue, quite apart from PAX being given poor instructions.

    We were always getting unsolicited suggestions as to making airplanes ‘safer’ for PAX, including issuing personal parachutes, and putting a parachute on the plane.

    The rope (line?) in the life jacket might work, but perhaps better a climbing type line in/to each life raft.

    I remember seeing a long line of people escaping from the Costa Concordia, apparently down a single line from the high side deck. It must have been hard, especially for older or unfit PAX, but they made it.

    Ive seen a vertical canvas? tube deployed on a Canadian ferry, so PAX could slide down the inside into waiting life rafts. Apparently developed from similar devices used for loading troops from a transport into smaller landing craft during WW2. Apparently the biggest issue is persuading PAX into the tube at the top. I also suspect it might work “low” side only in heel, and even then for a limited range of heel. I thought it was brilliant.

    Back in the day, laden troops climbed down nets slung over the side, sometimes regardless of heel angle, high side or low side. Could this work today, in extremes?

    I notice on my last commercial ‘cruise’ the muster stations were in the ‘theater’ deep inside the ship and comfortable, totally cut of from all visual clues and cues. All previous muster drills were outside on the main deck, usually right under our assigned lifeboat. Is this a good move?
     
  9. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Seawol door

    I noticed it too, and came to the conclusion it was a sliding door, hanging from its overhead track, ie sliped out of any 'guides' it might have had on deck.
     
  10. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Can it get any weirder?

    South Korea Commune Combed for Founder Linked to Sewol Ferry | NBC NEWS
     
  11. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    So he has done a runner
    We know he is not in anacortes picking up his new self designed yacht...lol
     
  12. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    How do you know he is not in Anacortes, perhaps i could drive up and look!
     
  13. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Recovering the Seawol

    As far as i am aware, these large cranes are very expensive, slow to move, and not very common either. When in service, they do not sit around, but go to the work, too expensive to have sitting around waiting, though their slow sea speeds hamper long re-positioning trips.

    I understand there are many different ways of raising these ships, and the use of each technique depends on circumstances, the state of the wreck, tidal conditions, angle, depth, and configuration of the wreck, etc. There are specialist companies, and specialists in these arts, just as we had such people to rescue/recover damaged aircraft. I assume the crane calculation was some journalists knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

    Usually the lifting of a wreck is an environmental/publicity/political (embarrassment) issue, not really economic. Some wrecks get their wounds sealed, and air pumped in, usually with barges or pontoons for stability. They are then dragged nearer to a yard, where the final lift can take place. In other parts of the world, India for instance, they seem to be dragged up or too the beach, then simply cut up.
     
  14. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member


  15. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Sewol helm

    Perhaps some of you could elucidate maritime practice for a retired airplane designer. I understood there was a difference between the "helms person" and the watch officer.

    So far I have heard, from ill informed news media no doubt, that a junior person (officer?) was on the helm when the boat turned and started to roll. I thought that the person on the 'wheel' could be the most ordinary of seamen, whilst the person 'on watch' was a completely different person, and one with at least a modicum of training, and certification. What therefore is the role of the various 'mates'. Are 'mates' officers, and what authority do they have.

    Was the young, or junior person (girl?) on "watch" or was she steering. Were the two the same person. Is this 'usual?

    In my extremely limited experience of larger ships, the captain never stood a 'watch' but 3 or so of his 'officers' did, turn about. Each of these 'officers' were free to roam about the bridge, taking sights, and navigating, whilst a junior seaman actually stood by the 'wheel', or in some cases a couple of push buttons, and 'steered' when necessary. The captain seemed to spend most of his time in a small adjacent cabin, doing paperwork, and wandering onto the bridge. Management by walking around, a good technique.
     
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