South Korean ferry MV Sewol flips, 1/2 sunk in shallows, people trapped.....

Discussion in 'Stability' started by Squidly-Diddly, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Depends on the flag state, tonnage, and the company. SOLAS, ISM, and ILO don't sepecify a specific number, but rather call for safe practice, training standards, and limits on watch duty periods. Very generally, for mid-size commerical ships, the minimum number of deck watchstanders by good practice is 3, a navigating deck officer, a lookout Per Rule 5, and a roving watch. Flag state safety requirements (if any), may set a higher number.

    Edit to add...Noticed I didn't answer the exact question...the answer is "it depends". The helmsman could be the deck officer or a lookout/rover or "Iron Mike"...it is not like the Navy where there is a crewman assigned to every critical position. Some companies, like cruise liners, like to reduce crew work loading for safety so there would be a helmsman and a radar operator as well as an OOD...in North Sea small bulkers, the required deck officer is helmsman and lookout...
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  2. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    reality is 2 monkeys from the deck make lookout and helm and then your OOW that supposedly can speak english if he/she has a stcw95 ticket.
    unlikely to have a common language between the 3
    PS Flag state issues the manning document that you are legally required to follow.
     
  3. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    or, if the common language was Chinglish, plenty of room for confusion
     
  4. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    reminds me of a great story/accident that the MAIB investigated and when they dragged both sets of crews into court they found out that the only things the helms could understand in English was the helm terms and the 2 watches that watched the 2 vessels crash into each other, when asked why didnt tell the OOW, they both said we were told to watch, not told to say anything
     
  5. NoahWannabe
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    NoahWannabe Junior Member

    Didn't have time to read the whole thread.

    Cause of accident as officially reported so far:
    1. Overloaded cargo (vehicles and heavy cargoes), additional deck, reduced ballast to compensate overload condition.
    2. Late departure due to fog and short cut route (not a scheduled course) through high turbulent current area.
    3. Junior officer with less than a year of experience on helm at the time of accident. Captain asleep.
    4. Improper safety equipment maintenance (locked life boat, insufficient life jacket, etc.) Improper safety training. Totally wrong procedure: captain was the first to leave sinking boat while PA announced all passengers to wait in their place. All officers escaped first. Regular adult passengers like truck drivers left boat against the announced instruction. Well disciplined and well behaved students and teachers stayed in cabins according to announcements and drowned. However, many low level crews, some teachers, and some students gave up their life jackets to save others.
    5. Lack of coordination between Korean Coast Guard and other agencies delayed rescue. Ferry boat company being defensive and not being proactive about rescue operation greatly hampered government agencies.
    6. Conservative Korean government trying to please Liberal political groups and victims' family demands makes some missteps in rescue operations. Reminds me of Bush administration during Katrina. Multiple crane ships called into rescue within few days but families desires drive the search and rescue operation and nobody is in control. This part was reminiscent of NY World Trade Center victim families driving recovery and reconstruction efforts. Very emotional and probably not the best processes.
    7. The whole thing was very similar to Valdez in Alaska and Concordia in Mediterranean. Unpreparedness, some corruption, profit motivated and cult owned ferry operator.
    8. Bad weather didn't help search and rescue either. Fog, fairly constant high winds, choppy waves, 4-9 knots tidal current almost constantly except for during slack tides, turtled and side turned ship with no access between port side cabins to starboard side cabins.

    As mentioned briefly, many heroes and heroines among low level crews, teachers and students. Many died giving up their life jackets, trying to save students instead of saving themselves. Many Korean Navy divers (Seals and UDT) getting bends due to over staying under water trying to get few extra minutes of rescue. One commercial rescue diver did die during diving.

    There wasn't any Chinglish problems. They were all communicating in their language within their territories among their agencies only. Any English terms they use are all pronounced alike by them so that was not a problem just as any Americans or Australians won't have any issues within their locality. American in Australia may have language issues, just like I have issues when I am in certain Southern US states.
     
  6. Rastapop
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    Rastapop Naval Architect

    If they all had Chinglish in common they'd all also have Chinese in common, so no trouble communicating.

    Anyway, this is Korea we're talking about, not China, so Chinglish isn't going to be present, and they'll all have Korean in common.
     
  7. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    I think the only issue with the helmsman is he/she hadnt yet attended the 'how to helm a boat dangerously overloaded' course.
     
  8. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Sewol operator owner Yoo Byung-un a fugitive over a month after ferry sank | THE INDEPENDENT
     
  9. Sailor Alan
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    Sailor Alan Senior Member

    Lucky us!

    Thanks Noah, power about, Imaginary Number, jehardiman, et-al. Very informative. I could see the land based 'advice' from whoever was giving it was not a great help.

    I didnt know they shortened the rout.
     
  10. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Ferry disaster crew to face trial | STUFF/REUTERS
     
  11. Pascal Warin
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    Pascal Warin Junior Member

    Surprisingly none of the people which approved this ship stability file after her conversion (added one deck) is on trial.
    I am rhetoric when saying "surprisingly" because this is absolutely not surprising me that the master and crew will be held responsible and government will receive no blame on gross negligence in security check.
    Ship business as usual.
     
  12. Pascal Warin
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    Pascal Warin Junior Member

    Agree.
     
  13. powerabout
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    powerabout Senior Member

    no, the 2 surveyors that signed it off have been arrested.
    They will be in a different court as they would be facing different charges I would think
     
  14. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Hopefully they can get to the bottom of it and justice will be done on the faulty survey. Such a huge mistake that has led to a horrible tragedy. The previous owner reported the ship was unstable as well. Lots of blame to go around.
     

  15. Pascal Warin
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    Pascal Warin Junior Member

    And what about the civil servants and politicians ?
     
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