Sourcing from China

Discussion in 'Materials' started by bluebox3000, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    Powder hound

    I've used "Powder bound" choppy^^^ with epoxy, seams to go pretty ok, works great with poly & vinyl resins too. The fibers are much looser within the mat & it "sheds" more stray fiber than emulsion bound mat but is more conformable esp with epoxy. Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to get it in 225gm.

    On topic, I used some Asian sourced resin around 10+ years ago, lucky only 3 x 44s... glad when they ran out, the supplier assures that the material has improved, I've used Chinese choppy with no probs.

    Jeff.
     
  2. CloudDiver
    Joined: Jun 2014
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    CloudDiver Senior Member

    I think what the OP was getting at by saying the recent 'Hype' over Alibaba was in realtion to the recent IPO. Yes, Alibaba has been around more than a decade but nobody really trusts working with Chinese partners over the internet. Obviously there is loads of Industrial trade taking place between East and West but it is done in the traditional fashion with face to face meetings, inspections of manufacturing facilities, engineers meeting to agree on standards, professional translators, etc. All of these things are expected costs of doing business in volume but are out of reach for medium to small operations.
    Alibaba has the intenet to win the confidence of the Western market and give buisnesses the confidence that they are policing thier sellers and holding them to ethical standards. They have a system of seller repuation like eBay does. Alibaba is literally trying to (and by most reports functionally is) the eBay, Amazon, PayPal and (many others) all put together for the East.
    There have been scandals in the past. Yes, Vendors took big orders and didn't deliver a product or delivered a sub-standard product and Alibaba execs took kick-backs. Many other stories will emerge I am sure, but how is that any different from shady business deals in the West?
    Anyway, I can agree that confidence in this website vs. the risk for the small buyer would steer people away. You also have pretty much no legal recourse if you get bamboozled. BTW, if you look into the IPO you'll notice that Chineese law prohibits forigners from investing directly in Chinese companies, so if you buy the IPO you are not actually buying Alibaba stock, but interest in the part of the company that is incorporated in the Cayman Islands (go figure). I'm not exactly sure I understand that part myself, but regardless there is news all over the finacial marketplace about the IPO and how the company is doing since then.
     
  3. antonkov
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    antonkov Junior Member

    I recently ordered a batch of uni-glass and infusion grade epoxy from Alibaba. Shipping for a ton of glass was about $400, same for 250kg of epoxy.
    First order just arrived, once I clear it with the customs can post my impressions.

    My logic is that e-glass chemistry and fabrication is simple enough to cut some corners there, I can be wrong of course. The weaving of the yard is where the quality would apply and I know I won't get as good uni as from a local store. But that affects rather working convenience than panel strength. At 75% savings it is hard so say "I would rather works few more months at my day job and then afford a really nice uni glass", and I love my day job.
     
  4. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    I have customers in China that buy products in the US and have them shipped to China.

    Shipping to China can be cheap due to all the shipping containers that need to go back there empty. Plus these builders have found that while local materials can be found at a very low price, the quality is so inconsistent that they can't depend on it to build a good yacht.
     
  5. antonkov
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    antonkov Junior Member

    From what I heard, even those materials that are produced in N America still originate in China. E.g. local epoxy still originates in China and then gets bottled (barelled?) here before it makes into retail stores at 4x price. If the importer can control the quality, for local Chinese consumers it should be even easier, one would think.

    Same with glass, I doubt the yarn is mass produced outside of China.

    May be those importing from US into China deal with super rich who take a pride in the fact the boat is built from "US top quality components", which must sound very impressive over there, can easily see that.
     
  6. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    Very little of the resin purchased, if any, comes from China, there are a few importers that try to sell Korean resin though. The data sheets tend to be very vague, what I have personally seen listed is.

    Gel time, Varies

    Viscosity, Varies

    Peak exotherm, Varies

    Now there's a data sheet I would trust.

    Some glass comes from China (a great deal now), but it took years for them to bring the quality up to where it actually worked and builders would buy it. Funny thing is, the price went up as the quality improved. The junk low cost stuff can still be found though.

    You have a couple of distributors in your area, one or two sell very high quality products at a fair price, there are others that buy cheap crap and pass it on to those that are only looking for a price. So pick your supplier carefully.

    BC is also one of the most targeted regions for Asian imports of all kinds.
     
  7. antonkov
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    antonkov Junior Member

    Here is the datasheet for the infusion epoxy I ordered from Alibaba.

    If I come to a local store and start asking about tensile strength of the E-glass yarn used in this specific fiber cloth, I will look as the first idiot ever asking this question. Telling from experience.

    But dealing with manufactures is a different story, here I would agree, just too bad there are no manufacturers left here.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    Local stores aren't the places to start asking questions on the specific properties of certain fibers, these locations typically sell to small DIY customers that aren't very sophisticated, they are more likely to shop for a price than quality.

    Find a real distributor that can supply the details and has direct contact with the manufacturers.

    They can supply proven reliable products that are backed by a known manufacturer and the distributor. Doing a small repair or making an small insignificant part doesn't require this, but building a boat or other larger project does.
     
  9. steve123
    Joined: Dec 2014
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    Location: China

    steve123 Junior Member

    I've been living and working in China for 10 years in the boat building industry and although there are a lot of poor quality materials there are equally a lot of good.
    The finding of quality product suppliers/manufacturers is not too difficult, the problem is usually the large quantity required for minimum order.
    I spent 18 months sourcing everything to do with marine industry that was very high quality to hopefully set up in business exporting products.
    Unfortunately when someone says can you get me 1 x 3.6m Dinghy the minimum order in 5, this is the problem with most products.
    However prices are considerably lower than Europe/US.
    The QC side i would do myself as i have been doing this on boats here for 8 years.
    If anyone is considering purchasing products from China in reasonably high quantity and also needs QC or Inspection then PM me.
     
  10. bluefishing
    Joined: Mar 2016
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    Location: New Jersey

    bluefishing New Member

    I am a new member and can't figure out how to pm people. I would order in large quantities, but just to get a sense of your prices, how much are you charging by drum for polyester resin for boat building?

    thanks
     

  11. myark
    Joined: Oct 2012
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    myark Senior Member

    Over the last 19 years I have spent over ten years in china and most certainly agree that self QC observation is a must to have superior quality.
    An example of pricing for quality CNC or EDM machining averages at $10 USD each hour and less for large production runs.
    The overheads and rent for workshop are extremely low assisted by the low cost of living, as an I live in the Guangzhou region labor for a CNC and EDM tradesmen is up to $1000 USD a month, rent for a good apartment cost per month about $100 to $150 a month.
    What I like with manufacturing in China besides been very competitive is the respect and friendliness.
     
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