soric core material printing thru???

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by harrier spiro, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. harrier spiro
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: melbourne australia

    harrier spiro Junior Member

    have a finished mould for a 5.4 mtr hull

    have been doing test panels and cant seem to get rid of the print thru of the soric core material

    been doing the test panals on a glass sheet cray valey iso gel coat wich is left to cure overnight followed by a 250gsm chop strand matt skin layer vynel ester hand lay up left to cure overnight both of wich have seemingly cured very well at the correct mekp in this case 2 percent by weight volume

    now the laminate is a s follows 4 layers of 1150 gsm quad ax roving followed by soric core mat followed by another 4 layers of 1150 gsm quad ax
    using vynel ester infusion resin from 3 different companies on seperate peices

    parts have been left to cure 24hours then released from glass pain with seemingly no print thru then a day later it shows up

    print thru of the soric core every time..:((( ???... bit worried as i dont want to go ahead and do a whole hull that turns this way...

    im a little baffled as to the print thru issue ...is it shrinkage? or somthing else im missing...laminate does not exceed 26degrees celciouse thru the exotherm period and ambiant and glass pain/laminate temps start at about 22 degrees

    can someone shed some light on the situation
     
  2. harrier spiro
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: melbourne australia

    harrier spiro Junior Member

    ? anyone have any ideas
     
  3. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Why are you using core matt in a hull topsides or bottom ??????
    You never use corematt in a hull bottom !!.
    Thats a complete no no ,
    With that thickness of glass ,4 x 1150 gram quad glass over the corematt and under the cormat , are you making a battle ship ??
    You could need a lot more that 250grams of csm cured as a barrier!!!more like 450 ir even 600 grams of csm heat cured .
    The amount of shrinkage will all that thickness of materials i am not surprised you are get print through !!!Even epoxy you would possibly get the same !!. :?:
     
  4. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    VE resins don't cure that well in a thin laminate, so unless you use a special VE skin resin it may suffer from a good deal of post cure when the rest of the infused laminate is applied, which can result in print through.

    A different resin or thicker skin may help, also leave the part on the mold longer.
     
  5. harrier spiro
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: melbourne australia

    harrier spiro Junior Member

    ok..it is a specific skin layer ve resin....

    was going to do 4x 1150 then core then 4x 1150 for the bottom side and rear end of the hull then 4 layers of 1150 for the sides

    overkill?
    equals out to be about 11mm thick bottom and backside and about 4mm sides

    the soric core is the hexagonal shaped core 3mm thick wrong material???

    been given the wrong info from a suplier i guess?????...:((( fek it

    so maybe the lay up should be a 450 gsm chopped strand matt skin then? for hull bottom and ? for sides out of 1150 gsm quad ax wich is what we have at the moment and a few of rolls of bi ax 450gsm

    what would you recomend as a lay up...out board set up

    tunnels you have given me some awesome info in the past and its muchly appreciated
    ive been getting lead astray by some reps.:( this is becoming a trend it seems
     
  6. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Harrier spiro, I think your gunna have to invest in some paid for professional laminate engineering for your lay up, looks at the moment your throwing plenty of exxy materials (which is good that your looking for quality) in a hope for making a super strong hull. Thats a lot of heavy quadrax in there- quad is good but its thin for the fiber wieght- you need thickness for stiffness, get Aus standard AS4132.3 for fiberglass construction, you need some chop interleaved between the stitched/woven layers if using poly/vinylesters. I'm pretty sure if you get the right advice for the laminate engineering you'll save its cost on the first hull. Regards from Jeff.
     
  7. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member



    Yes there are skin resins, they're formulated to cure well in a thin laminate for a better surface profile.

    Surface profile can be a big issue on infused parts, it takes a little more work to get good results.
     
  8. latman
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    Location: Australia

    latman Junior Member

    Hi Harrier Spiro , I currently infuse with FGI VE and a 330 csm glass cloth either side of 2mm SF Soric , you could use TF soric instead which prints much less , are you using 3mm XF or SF presently? ( XF prints worse IMO )
     
  9. idkfa
    Joined: Sep 2005
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    Location: Windward islands, Caribbean

    idkfa Senior Member

    skin resins? How thin does a skin have to be to qualify for a skin resin? 1000gsm<? or the rate of curvature of the mould or something? And what's going on with resin?
     
  10. Releaseagent
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: Gosport

    Releaseagent New Member

    Try a d7760 finish mat behind your gelcoat. Also from cantor.
    Also you could try a 2mm xm core mat behind the gel which takes 10% less resin which means less shrinkage.
    Ashland ame 6000 vinyl ester resin with syrgis mcp75 catalyst will also reduce the print through
     

  11. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Herman Senior Member

    There have been some reports on surface quality. Best is to combine all possible options:

    -gelcoat right thickness and degree of cure
    -barriercoat right thickness and degree of cure
    -skin coat of low-shrink VE and right degree of cure
    -Soric TF 1,5mm
    -rest of laminate
    -low shrink, low temp, slow curing curing agent (for instance Andonox MCP)

    Lantor D7760 can be used as well, behind the gelcoat or gelcoat/barriercoat. (only when infusing.)
    if hand laminating, a glass felt can be used, like Freudenberg T1777.

    Degree of cure is vital in preventing print issues. Changing curing agents might help. (from MEKP to AAP for instance)
     
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