Sonic 23ft {the ups & downs of}...

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Canada Bob, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    It's that time of year and there seems to be some decent boats on offer, so.

    I have an option on a Sonic 23ft sailboat, {see the link below for the spec}.

    http://sailquest.com/market/models/sonic.htm

    I'm not into racing or anything like that, but I like to sail the {mostly, on a good day} sheltered waters around the Atlantic coast of Nova Scotia. Like to fish from a boat and camp aboard for a few days, so a boat of this size would be all I need.

    Having said that I tend to stay in the sheltered waters we aren't unknown the squalls round here, and the occasional heavy sea that can stand in the way of me getting back home.

    I've had a look at the capsize ratio of the Sonic 23's and {at first glance} they come in at 2.03 {I think it was}, nothing too alarming there :rolleyes: but...

    When I did the Angle of Vanishing Stability calculation it came up with a screening value of 9.35 and an AVS of minus 503.43

    I would really appreciate it if someone could comment on those numbers, and on what they think of the boat itself.

    The price is right, the boat size/layout would work for me, but I'd appreciate input from folks with a better understanding of AVS etc.

    Thanks,

    Canada Bob.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    How did you preform these calculations? My data base doesn't have much on this boat, but your stability numbers suggest you've made a fundamental mistake in calculation. I've got a AVS figure of 123 degrees for this boat.
     
  3. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hello PAR,

    First of all Thanks for the come back, appreciated...

    Here's a link to the Sonic 23ft'er.

    http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=290

    As for the calculations, yea, they don't seem right to me either, hence the request for a clarification, the AVS number would seem to suggest that once the boat capsizes it would continue to roll until it landed on the nearest beach ;-)

    Here's the link to the calculator that I used...

    http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__sad_ratio.htm

    After running it again I get the same {weird} results !!!

    I would appreciate your thoughts on the boats suitability as a {slow/safe} day sailer / week end fishing / camper. I have no interest is rushing about in boats {done that years ago}, I used to rush from A to B {where I thought the fish might be}, only to find that there were plenty of fish at A to start off with ;-)

    The Sonic 23 has its appeal for me, but there's also a "One Owner" 1973 C&C 25ft in real good shape, hard to chose between the two of them, comments appreciated.

    Here's a few comparative numbers...

    Performance Comparison

    LOA C&C 25 25.10
    Sonic 23 23.00

    LWL C&C 25 20.72
    Sonic 23 20.00

    Beam C&C 25 8.78
    Sonic 23 7.58

    Displacement

    C&C 25 4126
    Sonic 23 3400

    Sail Area

    C&C 25 306 sq ft

    Sonic 23 242 sq ft

    Capsize Ratio

    C&C 25 2.19

    Sonic 23 2.02

    Hull Speed

    C&C 25 6.1

    Sonic 23 5.99

    Sail Area to Displacement

    C&C 25 19.03

    Sonic 23 17.12

    Displacement to LWL

    C&C 25 207

    Sonic 23 190

    LWL to Beam

    C&C 25 2.36

    Sonic 23 2.64

    Motion Comfort

    C&C 25 15.9

    Sonic 23 16.81

    Pounds/Inch

    C&C 25 650

    Sonic 23 542


    Canada Bob.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The US Sailing calculator uses some questionable math and several very large assumptions.

    The Sonic is a reasonable boat for your needs, though I'd be inclined toward the C&C if of similar price and equipment. The C&C is a substantially bigger boat, a better sailor, particularly in light air and the build quality is a known commodity.

    Your assumption about the Sonic's AVS is incorrect. She's less likely to capsize then the C&C, which is also not particularly prone to it either. For your needs both will do, though the larger C&C will be more comfortable, faster and will have a better resale value too.
     
  5. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hello PAR...

    The US Sailing calculator uses some questionable math and several very large assumptions.
    Better than nothing I guess, but only just maybe ;)

    The Sonic is a reasonable boat for your needs, though I'd be inclined toward the C&C if of similar price and equipment.
    Nothing to chose between them on price, equipment or condition, they are both in excellent shape, showing "pride of ownership".

    The C&C is a substantially bigger boat, a better sailor, particularly in light air and the build quality is a known commodity.
    Understood, thanks for the insight...

    Your assumption about the Sonic's AVS is incorrect.
    Thought as much, hence the request for clarification.

    She's less likely to capsize then the C&C, which is also not particularly prone to it either.
    I hardly ever sail with the full nine yards going, so that should lessen the prospect of turning turtle...

    For your needs both will do, though the larger C&C will be more comfortable, faster and will have a better resale value too.
    Understood and appreciated, thanks for your time and consideration PAR.

    Canada Bob.
     
  6. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Piece of cake Bob, now post some pictures after your purchase . . .
     
  7. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
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    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hello Par...

    Thanks again for the feedback, as for the above, well, here's a link to where the boats are being offered, let me know what you think of the price and what you can see of the condition.

    First of all the Sonic 23, it's listed at $4,500 but they want $2,000 for the custom made trailer, that puts it close enough to the price of the C&C.

    I have managed to get photo's of the interior of the boat, and it's immaculate...

    http://qc.kijiji.ca/c-autos-et-vehi...s-marins-voiliers-Sonic-23-W0QQAdIdZ305701693

    Here's a link to the C&C 25...

    http://novascotia.kijiji.ca/c-cars-...oats-C-C-25-Mark-1-REDUCED-W0QQAdIdZ316613390

    Canada Bob.
     
  8. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Here's a few more of the Sonic 23.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I can't evaluate yachts from pictures, but I think the prices are high, especially in this market and particularly considering their well loved age.
     

  10. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
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    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hello PAR...

    Well, at least the photo's give an indication that neither boat has been neglected, you should see some of the boats I've looked at in the last few weeks, boats listed with photo's that were taken years ago, the photo's for one boat were taken in 2002 !!!

    I thought the prices were on the low side, maybe that's because I'm an ex-pat Brit and I know what folks ask for 1/2 a boat over there. There's no doubt that prices do reflect the local market, and that boats in Florida can be had for half the price you'd pay in much of Canada.

    I bought a boat off eBay a few years ago, and even though it took the expense of an 8 day round trip to pick the boat up and trailer it back to Nova Scotia, paying import duties and tax @ 15% it still came in at just over 1/2 the price would have paid if I'd bought the same or similar boat in Canada.

    Although the many parts of the world are having a tough time we are fortunate enough in Canada that the prices for homes, cars and boats etc, haven't been affected by the {almost} Global recession.

    As for age, well, I wish that I was aging as well as fiber glass does. A lot is down to that pride of ownership thing, if folks have taken care of their boats, not to mention added stuff to them, electronics etc.

    My rule of thumb is, if a boat is younger than me, I'll consider it ;-)
     
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