Some one has to start it, Americas default.

Wall Street's downturn was more modest than I expected today - of course tomorrow is another day - although it still managed to wipe out all the gains of this year according to media reports. All that tells us is the people with money to invest are nervous but not actually panicky. It also tells me they aren't very informed or alert: I started got my investments out of of the markets shortly after Bush jr was elected.

OK, here's my advice America, it's always worked in the past, just start a quick war with somebody you can be sure to beat . . . oh wait, that's already been done and you didn't beat them yet, did you? Well, there's your problem, one of them anyway. OK, back to classic international politics - thing to do when you lose a war is let the winners sort it out for you. Serve the ba$tard$ right. If only we knew who they were . . .

Don't worry, it's not going to be China. If we can't buy, they don't sell . . . and whatever parts of the USA they think they own they can't take it home and it's rapidly becoming worthless anyway. Did I just stumble on some vast secret plan? This might be my last post . . .

 

Ancient, you are fairly close to the correct course (well for you as you see it)

Bix weir, in part offered this in a recent email...
"If you think this volatility is wild...just wait a couple weeks! - - August 11th is the next GOP Presidential debate so expect everything to continue to breakdown leading into that debate. Ron Paul will emerge much stronger than ever before if everything goes to plan. - - I know times are difficult but now is the time we have prepared for. Help explain it to others. Have them read the free archives:
http://www.roadtoroota.com/public/department36.cfm "

and this link? America's Economic Chaos: Don't Panic, Get Informed! - - Know where to turn for the truth www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25897

And I wish you all good and safe sailing in the sea of life...

 

That's exactly what got the Tea Party started. People forget that the real outrage started when Bush bailed out the banks and it only transferred to Obama when he doubled down on the bailouts and then increased the budget by trillions of dollars.

Whatever you're smoking must be dynamite ****. The budget deal changes the budget by only a few billion dollars --less than 1% of total spending. The Tea Partiers didn't even get any decreases, all they did was slow down the increases by a very small amount. Don't let anyone fool you that the debt-ceiling showdown was caused by "Republicans". The showdown was forced by the 80 or so Tea-Party Republicans and the fear that the other Republicans have of Tea-Party challengers. Most Republicans don't really care about balancing the budget, only about getting re-elected.

Since the lower 50% of wage earners pay no income taxes at all, I would have a hard time working up any sympathy if Republicans wanted to raise taxes on them (I think everyone should pay a proportional share of taxes), but the Republicans have not proposed any tax increases at all. Zero. Zilch. The only people who have been fighting for tax increases are Democrats who think a couple making a combined income of $250,000 per year is rich. One thing is sure, though, raise taxes on them enough and they never will become rich. It's almost like that is exactly what the Democrats want.

OK, I'm not a Republican and I was not at all happy about the way that Bush and his Republican legislature handled the economy, but you have got to be kidding here.

You can't blame the Republicans for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the various Democrat-oriented special interest groups that both created the housing bubble and caused the default crisis by forcing lenders to give millions of mortgages to unqualified buyers. That was the cause of the American middle class loosing about half of its net assets. Under Bush, the Republicans tried (very weakly) to get Fannie and Freddie under control against the strong objections of the Democrats, especially Barney Frank. Barney Frank is probably the one person most responsible for the current economic trouble --and the idiots in his district re-elected him.

It also wasn't Republicans who created a huge, expensive new medical bureaucracy that is making small businesses afraid to hire. It wasn't Republicans who raised the price of energy and killed all of the the oil jobs on the southern coast by refusing to grant new off-shore drilling licenses (that was Obama, in case you haven't read about it in the Democrat-controlled press). It wasn't Republicans who took water away from small farmers in California, causing them to go bankrupt, in order to improve life for some random fish that no one ever heard of. It sure wasn't Republicans who shut down the logging industry in this country. It wasn't Republicans who gave the unions monopoly labor power so that they were able to price themselves out of jobs, drive manufacturing and mining out of the country, and destroy the economy of the midwest. It wasn't Republicans who taxed the hell out of the middle class to pay outrageous wages to government employees (well, OK, Republicans aren't completely innocent on this one). It wasn't Republicans who wrote thousands of pages of environmental, safety, and other regulations to drive up the costs of doing business, force car makers to build more expensive cars, force builders to build more expensive houses, and make it too complicated for an average guy to start his own business. etc.

Other than military buildups, practically everything economic in the Republican platform is something that will help small businesses and the middle class. Republicans are the *party* of the middle class. Do you think the rich are against abortion and in favor of gun rights for the masses? Do you think the rich care about higher income taxes on working people? Do you think the rich care about traditional marriage or care if middle-class kids are tied down to failing public schools? Do you think the rich love Sarah Palin? Contrary to popular mythology, most rich people vote Democrat. So do most poor people. The Republicans are the party of the people in the middle. Why in the world would the Republicans want to destroy their own base?

 

So you think everyone should pay taxes, do you? I'm willing to bet you also think we should get rid of the minimum wage laws, so the working poor can get properly squeezed from both ends....

You're forgetting that there are other taxes besides payroll taxes. Aside from direct ones like sales tax and gasoline taxes, the poor pay a lot of taxes indirectly. For example, landlords pay property taxes out of the rent they collect from tenants. And the price of just about everything they buy includes the hidden cost of taxes that are paid by suppliers, manufacturers, distributors and retailers. That cost gets passed on down the line, until the buyer eats them.

 

Taxes should be linked to spending, not income. A national sales tax and NO income tax is the way to go. I was amazed to see a woman with a really nice Bmer buy articles with food stamps while I, a taxpayer, drove a 20 year old car with plywood floors.

 

the total tax burden on every dollar earned used to be something like 45~50%, roughly half, if you earned it and spent it, you payed it. between property tax school tax (kids or not) luxury tax sales tax income tax gas tax alcohol tax parking meters the list is endless. In the end all tax gets charged to the consumer.

Rediculous as it seems I'm with Hoyt on this one, we need a flat tax, although I'm not convinced the fools in Washington deserve any money at all. Once upon a time there were no taxes and the gubment survived on tariffs and lotteries.

Sorry Dave no time to address your response, gotta go to work. Speaking of which even if I cant seem to catch up enough to actually start the runabout I am still pretty lucky. There's an article in yesterdays news about the disparity between Black Mexican and White recovery from the crash. Black and Mexican average family net worth is something like 6K while White average family net worth is about 110K. Owing to the issues of home ownership VS stock ownership. Who'd have guessed I didn't qualify as poor. Which means just one of my paychecks these days is worth almost as much as some peoples entire net worth. Kinda frightening given how I'm struggling along, trying to prepare for life after work.

http://brotherpeacemaker.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/wealth-gap-widens-along-racial-lines/

 

I'm in agreement with Hoyt too.

At first glance, it seems like a national sales tax would be a huge drag on our economy, considering a vast majority of our GDP comes from consumer spending. However, if the income tax was eliminated (and the sales tax was an appropriate rate), it could be done without affecting consumer spending. Why? The consumer would have about 30%-40% more money to begin with as they aren't paying income tax.

 

Debt deal is definitely going to effect state funding. Basically as the feds tighten there belt they are going to cut grants to states, as well they should.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/fewer-cops-more-potholes-debt-deal-could-hit-230956499.html

Personally I think a flat sales tax is the way to go although if I really had my way the gubment would get nothing but import taxes and lottery earnings. I say those fools deserve not one dime of my money.

 

Hi guys

here is some very clever artwork
it's drawings of piles of dollars - but it gives an amazing insight and perspective
scary stuff
the joke of course is that it not just America in the pooooo
just about everywhere else too
Africa of course is a joke, a very sick joke

http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/

enjoy
and as I said before - America, charity begins at home, stop spreading money around nations that will never pay back, look after your own first

 

We finally found one sliver of agreement, Boston. We need to replace the establishment demotards and republitards with statesmen who care about the health of the nation's economy. Global warming is a sham.

 

ah, you'll come around eventually ;-)

nice visuals Manie
I particularly liked the unfunded entitlements

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-06/us-credit-rating-cut/2827294

Oh bugger...... "The United States' credit rating has been cut for the first time ever, with Standard & Poor's lowering it from AAA to AA+, citing the country's looming debt and deficit burden."

Take care, and prepare your boat for a looooooong voyage...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-06/market-slide-sparks-super-fears/2827284 Australia is also in a bad way..."Fears of another global downturn wiped more than $50 billion off the value of the Australian share market yesterday - a slide that would have been particularly worrying for retirees and people planning to give up work soon."

 

Why can't Democrats just have policy disagreements without demonizing the people on the other side of the debate? Yes, I would like to see the minimum wage eliminated, but it's not because I want to see "the working poor get properly squeezed from both ends", it's because I think government meddling in the economy is bad for everyone.

There are lots of desperate people looking for work right now who would love to get a job at $5 per hour, and there are plenty of struggling businesses that could use a few people at $5 per hour but just can't afford $7.25. In an unregulated economy this would lead to more people being hired, the economy improving, businesses growing and having to raise wages to keep their experienced workers from going elsewhere and everyone would be better off. Instead, if you desperately need a job and I have a job I need done but can't afford to pay more than $5 dollars per hour, it is a federal crime for us get together and solve each others problems by a mutually beneficial agreement.

The minimum wage turns the low-end job market from a market to a lottery. Instead of everyone who is willing to work being able to find a job for $5 per hour, a lucky few get jobs for $7.25 per hour and the rest get to survive on food stamps.

Now, I don't expect you to agree with this --you probably think that businesses don't let payroll costs influence how many people they hire-- but at least I have the courtesy to accept that we merely have different opinions about the economics. I don't feel the need to turn you into a devil who wants to stop low-end workers from getting jobs. Why do you feel the need to turn me into a devil that actually *wants* poor people to make low wages?

 

Good post Dave, well said. I could not agree more with you.

 

Not the US in general, just the jerks in Washington. They seem to be completely unaware that there's a difference between a high school play and what they were elected to do. They seem more concerned about their public image than with a working economy. That's been consistent for a couple decades now, and all parties are guilty.

And back when he said that, democracy worked a lot better than it does now. Back then, people used politics to get into office and then they voted their conscience with an ear toward the entire constituency, not just some ideal of their party line.
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