Somali pirates

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by bntii, Feb 22, 2011.

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  1. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Piracy is hardly just the result of colonialism. The world has had pirates for as long as it's had ships and boats.

    Hebrew mercenaries garrisoned the Island of Elephantine on the Nile for several hundred years, beginning in the fifth century BC. They were there primarily to protect Egypt from Nubian incursions, but their duties included the protection of shipping from piracy.

    Julius Caesar was captured by pirates, and eventually returned to wipe out his captors after being ransomed.

    The Vikings engaged in piracy for centuries.

    The Mediterranean Ocean was a hotbed of piracy throughout the Middle Ages.

    The Japan-based Wokou were active for three hundred years.

    There was a Chinese pirate coalition in the early 1800's that could muster 10,000 men.

    Don't forget the Buginese, Malay and Sea Dayak pirates, of course.

    In Russia, Cossack pirates ranged all the way to Istanbul.

    And so on....
     
  2. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Set 'em adrift.

    -Tom
     
  3. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    If you destroy their "navy" you will get economic change, for sure. They will realize they should have stuck to fishing.
     
  4. Poida
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    Poida Senior Member

    Thanks Troy, being annoying is what I'm really good at.

    However the sentiment that the Western Governments are not doing enough is echoed by quite a few posts.

    I didn't suggest that pirates should be located by searching the big wide wonderful ocean, that is just your interpretation of what I said.

    All that is required is that when a boat leaves Somalia it can be detected and intercepted by the "blockade" suggested in another post.

    I didn't suggest that if women and children were killed I would be upset, that is just another halucination running around in your head.

    One of the ploys that theses people would take is to have women and children on board so that any attack on vessels resulting in their death would put pressure on the navy responsible to stop attacking them.

    I consider what the governments are doing now is a navy exercise and not a serious attempt to stop it.

    It's a pity Somalia doesn't have oil.

    Have a nice day Troy.
     
  5. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    If Somalia had oil they too could contribute to global warming. :D
     
  6. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    It seems to me that on the coast of Somalia, like anywhere else, there are only so many harbors they can use so those are what you need to watch, no need to be patrolling the entire coastline, agreed it is difficult to track the pirate vessels out in the middle of the ocean so some of the naval forces need to patrol off of these harbors up close and personal and dont let the pricks in or out. The pirates are taking full advantage of there being no government, so should we, stop every vessel, if they have any weapons at all on board, sink it. I agree with Troy, about it not being fair to kill every man,woman,child and dog, i would spare the dog.
    Steve.
     
  7. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    It seems that piracy through history has been a form of militant adventurism.
    A form of strength if you will.

    The case in Somalia strike me more as thuggery born of poverty and in the absence of social structure.

    Taken this way it might be not too far off to look at the short term influences which might have worked towards establishing the local conditions in Somalia. Colonialism might be on a list of possible causes.

    Perhaps this is too close to accounting slavery as a 'cause' of the inner city crime I see..
     
  8. hoytedow
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    It was colonized by Arabs before it was colonized by westerners. The crusades would not even have happened if not in reaction to violent overthrow of Christian enclaves one after another by Muslim advances.
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    They're a scourge, even caused The Phantom grief.
     
  10. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    Wired is reporting that the pirates sent two of their members to negotiate with the Navy ships, but the sailors didn't like the answers they were getting so the threw the negotiators in the brig and demanded the pirates send over different ones. This apparently led to a violent disagreement amongst the remaining pirates and the hostages may have been killed in the crossfire rather than intentionally.

    The plot thickens

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/201...oning-pirates-spur-quest-killings/#more-41388
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Stop making excuses for the pirates. In Florida even if an accidental death occurs during the commision of a felony it is chalked up as murder one. They were under pirate control at death; therefore responsibility lies with pirates. Destroy pirate haven.
     
  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Yes, leave it to the progressive to fault the US military for trying to save lives. If ever, and I think that the progressives will agree, there was a time for US and NATO military intervention, it would be to help the extirpated and suppressed of Lybia...
     
  13. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    For once I agree with you, mark, but with conditions.

    The no-fly zone would be a good (and relatively cheap and low-risk) start. I'm not sure we should go beyond that though. The questions become...

    1. What is the desired outcome
    2. How does application of force lead to this outcome?
    3. What are we prepared to spend to achieve this outcome?

    So, basically the Powell Doctrine.

    As for the pirates, that's a different issue. Short of setting up a convoy system (which no one seems to have suggested), this problem can't be fixed at sea, nor can it be fixed through the use of force. More pirates are probably killed by the sea than by the international forces, yet they keep coming because it's the only game in town opportunity-wise. Until that changes, the situation will continue.
     
  14. hoytedow
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  15. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Why doesn't the IMO handle this?!?

    What I'm talking about is an international set of regulations governing firearms aboard vessels.

    Many countries' land-based firearms laws are applied at sea, where there is no help available to us as mariners. If a mariners chooses to keep defense weapons, they are subject to arrest by the police and/or customs. If they choose not to carry weapons, they are subject to the whim of attackers.

    Like the rest of the IMO law, there should be a governing law to help us all protect ourselves from attack while working at sea, regardless of what country we may be at port in.

    Why has the IMO failed to organize ship protective measures on an international basis?
     
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