Solomon Technologies - "Electric Wheel" electric motor propulsion systems

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by lockhughes, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I tend to agree with you there, it's the stowage thing we really need to solve. Reference this discussion http://boatdesign.net/forums/showpost.php?p=85848&postcount=163 and some of the others in this sort of 'far out' subject thread http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9630[

    I would ask that you reread over this discussion by Glacier Bay http://www.ossapowerlite.com/tech_library/fuel_efficiency/fuel_efficiency.htm One of the basics here is to match the generation of electrical power with the electric propulsion motor such that a large 'stowage medium' (batteries) isn't needed. And the permanent magnet DC units that allow for this to happen as opposed to AC systems.

    Granted, it's not exactly cheap is it.
     
  2. Kay9
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    Kay9 1600T Master

    Well I have a 25 Ton 60' schooner. the rig is Gaff and I cant get any closer the about 30 deg to windward. So if you have some magic trick other then an Aux engine to get me off the Lee of the Oregon coast when its blowing 20Knts from the NNW Im all ears.
     
  3. Kay9
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    Kay9 1600T Master

    Brian.
    I did find the discussions about converting Metalhydrides into hydrogen very intresting. A bit new yet for me to consider risking my life on. Also Im a bit concerned about the thermic (sp?) reaction when adding water to the mixture. I would think, your tanks would get very hot during the conversion back into hydrogen. I wouldnt know though.
     
  4. Kay9
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    Kay9 1600T Master

    I read your links there Brian, you make a very compelling arguement, or rather the paper you linked dose, about the loading aspects of the Aux diesel engine and the resultant fuel savings.

    In yours, or someone's opinion what size electric motor would be required to replace a diesel aux. in a 60' 23ton vessel? 6-8knts appearent would be acceptable in speed I think.
     
  5. eveready
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    eveready Chief Engineer

    Problem solved and created!!

    Trouty - you made my night. I just stumbled onto this brainstorm and you solved a problem that has driven me nuts for years. Why do batteries run down faster than I can explain through load loss and the third law of thermodynamics. I knew deep inside that the loss should not manifest to the apparent degree, considering the ammount of electrons returned to the battery as the circuit was completed and there came the epiphany --- the returning electrons upset the polarity of the battery when they appear on the wrong side. DUHH! It's like washing my hands at work where we have only a five gallon water heater. By the time I use two gallons or so, the cold water running into the heater is already cooling the output noticeably. If I could shut off the intake to the heater I'd have access to five full gallons to degrease my hands not the two I presently have. Your MEG does just that but lets the heat out of the tank but not any appreciable flow of hot water. There is not even any need to reheat the water!!!!!!!! WATTA WIZARD or is it Water wizard? Anyway, I'll rehash your wordy digression and wait for more. EVEREADY
     
  6. eveready
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    eveready Chief Engineer

    Wow I was thrilled to stumble onto this site and find your contributions. I am about to begin building boats commercially and have future plans to christen some motorsailers with your drive systems. Please don't be put off by the basement people, listen to the balcony people who know what passagemaking is really about. Just keep on sellin' your ideas! I'm buying!!!! Eveready
     
  7. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I'm sorry Kay9 for not answering your questions. As I look at the dates of these postings I discover I was embarked on some other project and missed seeing them.
    Regrettably I am not the expert to answer your question as I am just 'tracking' this relatively new technology for possible inclusion in a new design. I believe the gentleman who started 'Solomons Electric Wheel' sold the company to the Catamaran Company, and has since entered back into the business again under a newly formed company. He might be one of the best sources.
     
  8. eveready
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    eveready Chief Engineer

    Let's go fast!!!!

    Seems like the natural showcase for your system in the extream would be racing DRAG BOATS or even OFFSHORE RACERS!! EVEREADY. PS: Let's go!!!!!!
     
  9. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    To determine the size of an electric motor to replace diesel, find out the efficiency of the diesel motor. Say, 40% is efficiency of the one you have. Max rated power for the plant is, say 200 kW. Because the plant is only 40% efficient, your actual max available power is 80 kW. Transmission and gear reduction play their part with another 10% (+/- 2%) reduction (from 200kW), so by the time the power hits the prop, you are looking at 60kW available at the highest rated speed for the diesel. Which is the power you need from an electric motor.

    Electric motors are superior to diesel, and any other combustion powerplant, in that they have immediate and full power from 0 to max rated rpm. High torques are capable of fast reaction and movement. Diesels can have high torque, but combustion engines achieve their full torque in a very narrow range of high rpm. Hence, you can probably install even smaller EM, around 45-55kW. That depends on the efficiency of EM. Good ones should be at least 85% efficient. If less, stick to the above maths (in the above case that would result in a 60 kW EM).
     
  10. SmartSource
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    SmartSource New Member

    perendev magnetic power generator

    Trouty...

    You are on to something... here is a video of a working prototype.

    Perendev Magnetic Power Generator:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4217264878350110062
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6189540769300973039

    300kwh MEG motor can power a few solomon motors and much more...

    Lets see if this guy is for real or just a over-unity scam artist.

    The specs from perendev.com:

    The 100 Kw unit is the smaller brother of the 300kw unit and was designed to be used in light aircraft and automobiles. We have now due to demand produced this unit as a static power unit.

    Power output : 100Kw 263.157 amps@ 380 volt 3 phase.
    Continuous power output is 90KW
    Synchronous generator.
    4 or 8 pole
    Temperature rating is 30-40c normal load
    Weight 250kg
    Dimensions: 1.2m Long
    1.2m Wide
    1.4m High

    Fuel: None

    SKU/Item Number: 0091098
    100 Kw emm generator
    To contact us:
    Phone: +49 89 620 30060
    Fax: +49 89 620 30061
     
  11. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    The Perendev "motor" has been discussed on here before. I believe the conclusion was that, like all related magnetic-repulsion rotors bearing similar claims in the past, it would not in fact offer free energy and would degauss, or slowly destroy, its magnets over time - outputting considerably less net energy in its lifetime than was used to manufacture it. If you have genuine evidence to the contrary, please post a link to the peer-reviewed journal article; if you're just trying to sell it, perhaps this isn't the place to do so.
     
  12. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    magnets in electromotors do not degauss. if that were the case, we would not have permanent magnet electromotors. degaussing requires thousands of amperes or hundreds of degrees Celsius to happen. A very slow degradation may occur if temperatures go above the working limits during the operation but that's in normal situations unlikely to happen.

    this perendev motor has been debunked a few years ago. the "company" behind it is a one man con-band that has been making promises since before 2000, and still nothing.
     
  13. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Professional BoatBuilder articles & other forum subject reference

    Dear Masrapido
    Are you familar with the Profession BoatBuilder publication? The last two issues had interesting articles on the diesel/electric subject. You can now access these articles online:
    http://www.proboat.com/digital_issues.html

    I'd be interested in your views on these articles.

    I assume you are also aware of this other diesel/electric discussion on this forum? I tended to post to this other one as it was 'titled' more generally than the specific reference to the Solomon's technology of this one.

    So I will cross reference that discussion here:
    Diesel/Electric Propulsion for Sailboats
     
  14. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    Hi Brian,

    No, I am not familiar with the USA magazine. I read by default only European publications as they have taken off quietly in the last 15 +/- years and are so much more advanced that the stuf people in bad old USA are talking now is all yesterday's stuff.

    But the articles you mention were interesting, if only because they are quite educational, unlike most of the commercial nonsense one can read today in magazines. So what do I think about diesel-electric? Diesel-electric configuration, as you will know well, is an old stuff. As a nautical engineer myself, to me it is nothing neither new nor "spectacular". It appeared on commercial ships some 20-25 years ago, maybe even earlier, in a range of configurations and for various uses on deck. Various armies and navies have used it for decades. I would not be wrong if I said for over 50 years now.

    Diesel engine is merely a substitute for batteries. It has advantage of being smaller and lighter than a bank of batteries (particularly lead ones), and it offers greater kW/kg densities. But I do not see an average Diego running to install it on a 12 metre boat. It is quite expensive and out of reach for many a sailor. It is easilly as expensive as a pure (lithium batteries powered) electric motor power system. A 60-70 kW diesel engine will set you back $17-20K, and then there's the electric motor and equipment.

    For me the pure electric system is the way to go. But no viable system has been designed yet. Until someone does it, the diesel-electric is the best option given its power to weight ratio and the overall efficiency.
     

  15. ChicagoDrifter
    Joined: May 2008
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    ChicagoDrifter Junior Member

    You want to boat or you want to work!

    As my broker told me when I asked about all this systems on my boat AC, Watermaker, electrical engine backup, etc. You want to sail or you need something to do.
    Years later I want to remove perfectly working AC and watermaker plus a lot of other stuff just because I can't keep up with the work.
    Fact 1: In a genset the electrical goes twice as fast as the diesel.
    Fact 2: Among cruisers Fisher Panda is rated low compared to Yanmar. Northern Lights is rated high for generators.
    Fact 3: If you think that a PM servo with controller is going to outlast a diesel engine you have to hear about my new religion.

    Solomon Technologies is linked to Fisher Panda. Look at the market of Fisher Panda compared to Yanmar for marine products before you buy into that 20 years reliability story. I do work with industrial servos and motors all the time and don't remember one that lasted more than 5 years at 12 hours a day 5days a week (a lot less at continuous use).
    If you like e-sailboats use a Warp Engine, a Curtis controller and a modified welder to charge batteries and run the motor. For regeneration use one PM alternator (200 AMPS) that is belted 10:1 to the propeller shaft. Yes you will need a neutral-engage gearbox. The cost is around $6K + batteries (4-5K) + work. About the same as an Yanmar. There is no easy way to conserve energy or replace fosil fuel hence the blood for oil situation. Use it or lose it baby! Buy the Yanmar stock they will be around longer than Fisher Panda.
    I would like to say something good about Solomon Technologies. In theory they got it right. I would like to know how many servos that purist guy replaced in 10 years. My bet 2-3!
     
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