datahandling software for pre design stage

HEllo,
For my graduation thesis at Delft university, I'm busy automating the pre design process of a naval architect. For this thesis I want to do some research in Database programs.

To me it seems that lots of the shipdata needed for calculations are still entered into the used calculation methods (read: spreadsheets) by hand. This is a time consuming business and may result into errors, especially when different concepts are explored.
I'm wondering how other naval architects handle their data input and output in excel. Do you enter it maually or by interface with a database?
How do you store and use data of comparable vessels? Do you have it on paper, in a spreadsheet or a database?
If you use a database, is it self developed or an implementation of an existing solution?

I think most naval architects have answers to the questions above. Please answer them for me. The more reactions the better!

greetings
wouter

 

Wouter,

You may be interested in looking into some of the tools available in Paramarine (http://www.grc-ltd.co.uk). The system has a module called Early Stage Design which implements a methodology developed by University College London known as the Functional Building Blocks hierarchy. The module allows the designer to equate all the design requirements against the potential design solutions. The output of this process being a hull form. Its sounds a bit flash, but basically, its like having a spreadsheet that knows about weight, stability, powering, etc. The webpage (above) has a download area with some information on the module. If you would like any further information, please email at my work address: mb@grc-ltd.co.uk.

Best regards,

Marcus.

 

Marcus thank you. The website looks promising.

does Anyone else have an idea

 

Actually, this has been on my mind for a couple of months also.

I have about 3 different spreadsheets for initial and parametric sailing yacht design (from the Delft series).

My latest spreadsheet generates a sectional area curve (SAC) and lines and then outputs a hull into very generic offsets. These offsets can be read by another one of my spreadsheets which does stability calculations. I will post these spreadsheets to my webpage shortly (http://www.redcoopers.net - it's currently being updated)

The problem with my methodology so far, however, is that it is built on excel and visual basic. This means that my spreadsheet will most-likely be outdated and unusable by future versions of MS excel.

Instead, I've sort of concluded that the best option would be a database of parent hulls using XML standards. The benefit of XML is that I can easily read in a database using a parser either into a C++ or Java program of my own creation. I've already built a C++ program which develops a SAC and lines based on lagrangian constaints and b-splines. I plan on adding a function which outputs the results into an XML file.

Last semester, I received my masters degree in offshore engineering and fluid mechanics, (and I have a different profession from that of naval architect), so any further work I do is simply as a hobby for myself.

However, I am continuing to do work in the subject. I plan on developing two sets of XML file standards. The first XML database contains items for parametric analysis from a set of parent hulls (ie, loa, lwl, bwl, disp, etc). The second XML file contains more developed information such as offsets, rig designs, etc. I am also planning on building some excel spreadsheets to parse the XML files.

Anyway, I'd like to see how your research progresses. Let me know if you'd like to bounce ideas back and forth.

-Jon

 

Design program

These seems to be a tall order. Thesis?

Personally, i use a spreadsheet that i design myself. It is designed for boatbuilding and not shipbuilding. Shipbuilding requires a lot of documentatations and calculations.

Like most Naval Architects do, we are guided by the design spiral. The raw data starting from first priority is fed first. The initial data provides the data for the second set and so on until all the design stage is covered.

For data requiring complex calculations, we use a software program such as hull design, powering, stress analysis, trim and stability, project planning,ect.

As the data gets refined, we go back to step 1 and "fine tune the data" and proceed again to step2 and so forth until the spiral design is to our satisfaction.

My spreadsheet goes further than design as it estimate material cost, labor, list of equipments, ect. At a glance, per sheet, i can look at the data. changing the data will change the end result.

The end sheet tells me the cost of materials, the labor content, the profit, and the project duration.

 

rxcomposite,

thank you for your answer.
My thesis is rather a tall order yes, but i have 9 months to finish it. A research shouldn't take me more than a month or two and then i can determine to write a database program myself or to implement an existing program, but then i first have to know which programs exist.

After you finish a design, what do you do with the data. Do you keep it in the spreadsheet? If you work with only one large spreadsheet this works quite well, but the company i do my thesis for has like 20 or 30 spreadsheets. When entering the next round through the design spiral, new spreadsheets will be used, data from the previous round has to be entered in these sheets. By automating this tremendous timesavings can be made. Also mistakes can be made by entering the wrong data or forgetting to update a calculation.

You mention the programs: hull design, powering, stress analysis, trim and stability, project planning,ect. Are these also self developed in excel or is it a software package like maxsurf? If so it appears to me that ship data (like wettedsurface and so on) has to be entered by hand or does it have any import functions? because that the kind of things i'm looking for..

thank you

 

redcoopers,
i would like to bounce ideas back and forth. Does microsoft have any plans to change excel to that large extent that current sheets will no longer work? That would be an important reason to start using a package like Marcusbole suggests. It is a complete package with spreadsheet functionalities. I don't no yet to what extent but that shouldn't be to easy to find out.
greetings
wouter

 

Design stages

wbouwmans,

Design has 3 distinct stages. (ships or expensive boats use more stages)
1. Preliminary design- This is to test if the clients demand will work given the input of the design. Things like how large, how fast, how its going to be used, ect. Will it work based on the client's demand. Will it work or not is the question.
2. Conceptual Design- After fine tuning the preliminary design spiral, the boat designer is certain that the design is feasible. Auxillary programs are now used to "tighten the specs".
3. Contract design- The stage where the boatbuilder and the client agrees on the design specs and performance.

The spread sheet i use has a seperate sheet for each phase. My spreadsheet has all the necessary phase to complete the preliminary design stage. Sans for the drawing, the spreadsheet both acts as a database and a number cruncher. Some sheets contain complex formulas for finding displacement, wetted surface area, and simple powering solutions.

After doing the preliminary design, i save the spreadsheet say design 1. and work on the second design and call it design 2.

Should the need arise to progress to conceptual design, i use auxillary programs outside of the spreadsheet and then save the whole thing under a "book". I now label it Design 1 conceptual.

If i progress to to contract design- i will use more and more auxillary programs and even MS word and MS Project. Again i save it under a book titled Design 1 Contractual.

The original spreadsheet is a form. I just fill in the numbers for every design so the basic format i can use over and over again. If there are more advance auxillary programs that comes out of the market, i use it (if i can afford it).
There is no obsoleting. Even my excell program i continually update if there is a better way.

 

So as I understand correctly from RXComposites text and lack of reactions, nobody uses a software package for easy storing and searching ship data.
To my opinion a good database could be really be helpfull in finding comparable vessels or components to place onboard.

 

Software design

Wbouwmans,

I think so too. As a boatbuilder, we are in need of a software that will handle "everything" but the case isn't so.

There are many specialized sofware program and there are many areas where the software is limitedly usable. most boatbuilders have a preference or have the money to buy the latest program for a particular use. Some cost USD 6,000 up to USD 20,000. Still it is very limited. I guess no software will satisfy all.

That is the reason i have to develop my own "software" for my own particular need. I'm sure most boatbuilders have also developed a system to make things easy for them.

You are on the right track. It will take a lot of asking the boatbuilders what satisfy them most but im sure you can develop something that would make the task easy.

Rx

 

You could think of a basis-program that can be adjusted to the wishes of an individual designer/builder.
Some account software works like that.

 

Peter,
That's exactly the point. The idea is to make a generic database that can contain all data about a ship. The database has to build itself by means of input from excel calculations, or manual input.
So when calculoations have been made in a random excelsheet, it should be possible to import calculated variables from that sheet to the database. But also the other way around. When a variable is entered in the database it should be possible to export it to excel.
Offcoarse calculations are only a part of a design, there are also the linesplans to account for.
That's why i'm looking for existing solutions (like Paramarine or Delftbase) which also have a graphical module or can communicate with for example autoship.