soft deck on cc where to cut opinions

Discussion in 'Materials' started by swade, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Core in. small fulcrums screwed in around the deck where i'll be grinding back the seam anyways worked great for edges and corners. Glad i added the biax it really leveled the whole center area.

    I barely fit this in tonight, then i remembered i still need to fill the gaps around the edges of the new core where it was placed in. fcgi epoxy says full cure is 24-48 hours...think i'll be ok to squerge some slightly thickened epoxy in there in the morning? gaps are small...i got the core pretty tight maybe 1/16 to a couple of eights in some places is all.

    Just wondering if that will be ok, or i could multitool it a bit and get some sandpaper edge down there to scuff up before filling the gap then bonding the outer laminate back tomorrow during the day sometime.

    I'll just play it by ear in the morning.
     
  2. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Removed my fulcrums and makeshift clamps this morning, filled my gap...every thing feels bonded really well to the inner skin... i really like epoxy...in a questionable situation (especially with my lack of skills) it really makes a difference. Getting this whole core down onto the inner liner business really had me worrying a bit this week if i should cut the thing out then do a lip. i know epoxy is gap filling but just bugged me. Looks easy when you see pics on the web but unless you want to bed it in a ton of goo spend extra time thinking through the clamping strategy...then any incidental gaps the epoxy takes care of. Prep too....When i thought everything was clean of old wood traces and toothed (in gaps,etc where i knocked out a few squares) i went back for another hour just to be sure!

    I'm putting the outer skin on in the morning yay. Really solid to walk on now as it is. Then on to messy grinding out my bevel.

    I'm thinking on filling the bevel with 1708, it's just i can get it close by....a marine store here stocks a few fcgi items but cloth selection is pretty much 1708, matt or finishing cloth. i understand the mat uses a good bit of resin and doesn't provide any advantage in an epoxy situation, but wouldn't it make up the 1/4 inch bevel pretty quck? would 1 layer do it?
     
  3. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    almost there! (need pics i know) just going to do a small bit of fairing and a final sand tomorrow. Going to be redoing the non skid so nothing fancy fairing wise...read up on the non skid threads so think i have a good handle of that.

    Today on the back 1/2 of the deck from the console back I sanded off the diamond no skid since i repaired with epoxy i won't try to match it. Crap man that stuff is tough! I never really realized how tough that was. I figured 30 minutes of sanding i'd be done. wrong!

    I attacked it with everything i had, air DA with 40 grit, belt sander (belt sander really wasn't worth the effort). I got it off finally with the da and gave the compressor a darn work out. And a mess of dust. Maybe i can find a lower grit paper...i dunno, i used the diablo 40 grit and changed quite a bit just to make some progress.

    not now but later on i'll have to sand the skid from console forward to make everything match.

    Any faster way to do this? i need a tool =) I may try one of my nice chisels and see if it will cut the high stuff off. Might try a trim router to skim it maybe. a planer is what i need but guess a normal one wouldn't work.

    I'm still deciding how to remount the pedastals. I'll probably overdrill and fill with epoxy but the whole design of these things I don't like. Considering building/glassing some pads which the pedastals will bolt to with tnuts but that may be overkill vs drill and fill with epoxy.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    [​IMG]

    Diamond grinding disks . . .
     
  5. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Thanks par! sounds like just what i need!
     
  6. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    have to say boat seat pedestals seem truly a marvel at 1/2 *** engineering..it's no wonder decks get waterlogged.

    Now these mount on the deck (so there's not a center hole cutout...which is another discussion all together).

    Now stock they mounted these right on the deck non skid channel. Those small channels between the non skid area. Here's the thing though the channel went side ways. So where was the water to go? I guess it was / is supposed to run out between the non skid diamond nibs until that gets filled with dirt on the back side.

    So i'm sitting here thinking, am i putting these back and how? I know i should overdrill and epoxy for the bolts but the whole thing bugs me.

    If you put them flat on the deck you can't seal the lip, water rain,etc will eventually get in the hollow tube. It's very odd to me they don't have drain channels grooved into the bases (though i know i can grind one in..i just find it funny.) Or sealed at the bottom of the tube with a drain so you seal the whole base to the deck.

    leaning post or cooler seat would solve this goofy issue but that's money.

    I'm leaning towards over drilling, fill with epoxy, redrill, and grind a drain channel on the bottom of the pedestal bases. But the whole design of these just seems goofy to me.

    Right thing to do would be to bolt a base (with tnuts to accept pedestal bolts) on the new deck. Then glass that all onto the deck and finish (no exposed bolts). Then mount the pedestal onto the base after grinding drain channels. But that's work. I'll probably go the other route, seems if i drilled and filled, and grinder in some drain channels on the pedestal and sealed the bolts that would be good to last.

    Maybe i think too much but the whole design of these things seems goofy
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    What I like to do is mount (glue) a disk of plywood to the deck, that will receive the pedestal mount. The pedestal is machine screwed to blind nuts in the plywood pad. I've had good success with this setup as no sole penetrations to let moisture below seems to solve most of the issues associated with these types of things. If you want to get fancy, you can make this pad significantly larger in diameter and route a water way around the pedestal base, with weeps or sloped drains to get moisture away from the base. Naturally, you'll need to measure carefully, so the machine screws don't punch through the sole. The worst thing that can happen, is the pad rots and you have to grind it off and make a new one.
     
  8. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Thats what i was thinking on doing as an alternative...as it makes the most sense. Except I figured you'd need to throughbolt the disk to the deck and glass over it tabbing it into the existing deck (which would make the penetrations holding the disk water proof).

    Will a disk hold with just the thickened epoxy? That's the easiest and makes a lot of sense.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yep, sure will. Build a generous thickened fillet around the perimeter so it shed water nicely and grind the sole good, so you're bonding to mat, not textured gel coat. I usually taper the plywood disk edge, at 45 degrees to help the point loading thing. Use a lot of milled fibers in the bond mix and a little bit in the fillet. Use talc (baby powder) heavily in the fillet, so it lays down sweet and pretty. Once, on a radar arch install and using a similar method, I was concerned about the pad ripping off, so I used a dove tail bit (laminate trimmer or router) and cut shallow concentric circles, in the thick deck laminate. My thinking was the pad would bond and mechanically key to the old laminate as a result, but still no penetrations.
     
  10. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Thanks for the tips! The more i thought about this today the more I was thinking on doing this..seems a good compromise. Pedestals aren't super tall, 18" and i'm not a big guy nor into sitting in rough water. Well keyed epoxy, plus the top skin is now epoxied to a new core so can't imagine it not working.

    I can get back there to thru bolt a disk but its a pita...some of the glassed 'pads' the deck rests on are right at the seat holes so working around them with a wrench in a couple inch gap blind is all guesswork. I keep worrying about dropping a washer or nut somewhere around the tank and missing it and setting off some galvanic action or something.

    I'll try to get some pics up, going to try to wrap this up in the next 2 weeks, kids are going to grandparents so time to get this thing on the water!
     
  11. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    In a hold pattern for a bit. Just putzing around with updating some other stuff between the daily rains (hoses, seastar seals, plugs, h2o filter, and such normal replacement items) while i ponder the deck coating. But ready to finish when i decide on that and the seats.

    I'm pretty sure while a bit pricy i'll go kiwigrip. generally good reviews and seems popular,goes over epoxy, goes on thick so i don't need to fair things as much as i would with something like a 2 part... And quick to touch up.

    Read up on a few other methods too (wash out method, found the plastic home depot board pattern in the other thread interesting! hadn't ran into that one.).

    In the meantime i'm holding out a bit on the seat install...while i update a few odds n end, keeping my eye open for leaning posts before i reuse the pedestals and epoxy a pad down.
     
  12. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    One trick you can use and is simple. Apply a thin coat of moderately thickened epoxy and use a textured roller to rough the surface. Of course, tape off the the water ways and around openings, let the epoxy sit for a while, until it just starts to thicken up, then lightly run the roller through. It'll kick off, before it can self level, leaving a texture.

    Truck bed liner is another good choice.
     
  13. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Done!

    I went with the kiwigrip. Initial impressions, it's a bit expensive, but quick! I taped off in 45 minutes, took an hour 1/2 to roll...could probably cut that to an hour on another go around. It gives a nice surface from initial impressions .

    Main reason I went with that is limited fairing...just some sanding, it filled in pinholes,etc. I rolled it on the drain lines with a foam roller, then used the texture roller. It covered really well. If i did it again i'd do a quick prime with the foam roller but it covered pretty well.

    Heck i bought a gallon due to the expense of the quarts...i used maybe a bit over a 1/4 of the can (i didn't go heavy texture).

    Eventually i'm going to grind off the rest of the diamond skid around the rail areas and do the topsides with it i think.

    I didn't have much luck with the diamond disc, maybe on a polisher where i could control the rpms, but THIS on an angle grinder made super quick work

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-4...sion-Kit-DCP045VGPS01G/202830887#.UijNmBY-0_U

    then i followed with my da sander. Took maybe 30m or so to get the nonskid off the front deck portion i hadn't done the patch repair.
     

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  14. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    now i know what you're saying...where's the seats. I couldn't decide yet. Those pedastals just drove me nuts everytime i thought how they are built. I'm holding out on a leaning post when i get around to making a decision or finding one. Then i'll grind and glue pads to mount it. Another reason i went with the kiwi, quick, easy touchups.
     

  15. swade
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    swade Senior Member

    Found a leaning post on craigs. And here's how i'm going to mount it.

    going to make 4 pads a few 1/8 of an inch with leftover 1708 (same size as the feet). I'm going to epoxy those to the deck. Then i'll over drill, fill, drill. Reasoning is water shedding down the deck or post it gives a raised lip not to sit at the seal joint. Overkill as i'm sure if i just drilled,filled,bolted,sealed would be good enough but the raised lip off the deck makes more sense to me.
     
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