SOF Row Sail Motor Micro Cruiser???

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Steveca4, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Rebel cat - SCOFF.
    Heavy, not stiff, not a good shape.
    No one will buy it later, but that might be difficult in any case.

    Look for a used Nacra instead.
     
  2. wayne nicol
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    wayne nicol Senior Member

    ;)
    see, i said they would scorn the rebel cat :)
    i still think for this specific application it will do well,
    affordable- easy to take apart and transport, easy to repair in the PNW weather- it will motor, and sail and row- sure- not as fancy as a carbon/foam cored sailing beauty- but it will get the job done well, at very little damage to the pocketbook.

    it might not be a boat that i would keep in my flotilla- but a practical little rig it would be- for this job :)
     
  3. wayne nicol
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    wayne nicol Senior Member

    i dont know if this is quite what he was looking for?
    maybe.....o_O
    [​IMG]
     
  4. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Please post pictures of your Rebel build, the weight, and a report after you have sailed it 10 times.

    The scorn comes from experience with cats, and transporting them.
    I'm sure it will float for a while.

    I think it would be cheaper to buy a used Nacra compared to finding the components, building, modifying to make things work, and repairing things after you take it apart several times.
    And I am not a big time high dollar sailor.

    Good luck - I've ignored good advice myself.

    Wayne - I'm not sure I get the joke?
     
  5. wayne nicol
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    wayne nicol Senior Member

    i am a bit of a boating purist, if i have to be brutally honest.
    but living up here where he wants to use the boat specifically, i know what this environment does to boats- there are no soft corners here- everything is sharp, cuts and scrapes, its a rain forest it rains all year round- we dont have nice level sand beaches. and we have some of the most hectic tide rips in the world
    i dont know if the plastic cat is the right boat for steve, i know its not beautiful, and its not going to win any races.
    but Steve was asking for something that was cheap, easy to transport on the top of his mazda, and that he really anticipated sleeping on shore most nights.
    ever tried to drag a boat, any boat over these boulder strewn , mollusk infested rock " beaches" where we have a 24' tidal range.
    he is going to need something that is tough, and easy to repair- something he can repair in the cold and the rain possibly.
    thats all.
    thats just why i thought the rebel cat was a good choice, i am not saying its the only choice- not by far.
    but the joke was that i said someone would not like it.
    and i bet many would not like it- you were just the first.
    i dunno- its his call- i am not making enemies over this.
    peace out my friend. :cool:
     
  6. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Yeah its all a bit of fun, Wayne.
    But PVC pipes aren't really that tough.

    The shatter on continuous impact, have very little integral strength, are expensive for the volume they displace and are really awkward to get a secure attachment placed.

    Plywood is by far the better solution for a budget build, and quality timber with tough nylon makes a good modern alternative to traditional light weight craft.

    Those seals are too hard to catch and skin compared with mail order for nylon :)
     
  7. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    PVC is also very difficult to repair, especially in the field.
    It is not very stiff as a material, the stiffness the tube has is due to really thick walls - which makes it heavy.
    Please find a piece of pvc tube about the right size and try to pick it up.

    Personally I would get a production cat, laminate double or triple the thickness of fiberglass on the bottom to the water line and try that out.
    The conditions of the beaches are certainly not what I have experienced.

    Enough from me.
     
  8. Steveca4
    Joined: May 2018
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    Ok great. Do you have any plans for those big family kayaks that Tiny mentioned were in the Film "Nanook of the North". It was a hoot to see how many passengers came out of that kayak. I've just recently been talking to Dave about a SOF cruiser and he had already been thinking about it too. He may do a row sail cruiser version of his RUTH. The first kayak I built was his Chuckanut, Dave helped me make it 18' and enlarged the cockpit for two fishermen, for my son and I. It turned out very light and tracked well. I then built a layout/sneak boat, a SUP and a Punt using SOF. Last year I did a foam version of the SoloSkiff. Right now I'm building a Gorfnik to help me learn to sail and use it inland. Andre the design in Quebec has a Paradox so that influenced his Gorfnik design. Basically its a PDRacer with a cruising cabin.

    I'm seriously considering the RebelCat but my initial look at PVC pipe cost makes it unaffordable. The rebelcat youtube vid says build for $300 but it looks like 12" PVC pipe goes for $40 a foot, I can't find any used pipes. Most pipe seems to be schedule 40 perhaps there are thinner types that would work: I'll keep searching. I've been tinkering with foamcrete and wondering if filling sono tubes with a higher ratio of foam to concrete and reinforcing with light wire mesh would not create great pontoons. Foamcrete floats well and you can screw into it. It would be a material to stand up to those rough shorelines.
     
  9. wayne nicol
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    wayne nicol Senior Member

    good points Ray and Upchurch. point taken :)
     
  10. Clarkey
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    Clarkey Senior Member

    This link may provide a path to plans for the extremely voluminous Hooper Bay kayak:

    Hooper Bay, Alaska Kayak http://www.arctickayaks.com/hooper.htm

    There is also some Youtube content which may be useful:



    This link also gives a very good idea of the volume in these Bering Sea kayaks:

    Wolfgang Brinck Boats http://wolfgangbrinck.com/boats/tales/kingisland.html

    I believe a boat of this kind paired with an outrigger to make access to and from the water easier for snorkelling etc. would start to answer many of the questions asked by the OP. A small rig and the facility to mount a tiny outboard on an aka would make for a very useful overall package.
     
  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I have been wanting to contribute since you asked what hull configuration would be best -on the previous page. I am a bit late, but I think you need to give this more serious consideration. You say you don't need high performance, but from you descriptions I see critical need for high performance in the fast currents and wind channels.
    1-You need a very efficient hull for human powering against currents.
    2-You need a very efficient sail rig for narrow tacking angles up the canyons.
    3-You need a hull that can cut through tall chop because that wind and current will be opposed half the time.
    4-You need fast capsize self-recovery because the water is cold and moving.

    A simple sturdy pig of a boat can get you killed.

    A catamaran is easy conceptually, but it is a distant second under human power, it is too exposed to wind and chop, and the recovery is most difficult.

    To my mind the only 'safe' choice is an over-sized kayak/decked sailing canoe.

    Edit -And based on what you are saying about the terrain, I think it would be foolish to commit to rowing -you MUST face forward and watch where you are going. Oars would be the biggest most awkward thing you carry, no backup, lose or break one and you lose all human propulsion.
     
  12. wayne nicol
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    wayne nicol Senior Member

    very good points skyak
    working up here ( tug boating, fish guiding etc) we learn to work with the weather and tides.
    a good marine radio with the weather channel and an accurate tide book , and current charts with currents etc, are our most valuable tools up here.
    however, that does not mean that you wont be fighting it on occasion, so best to be prepared for it.
    rowing forward is easy and comfortable, (especially in a standing position.) and offers a nice change.
    and carry a spare oar at least one.
    we used to use our oars as tent frames when we were guiding- so that obviated the need to carry tent poles.
    but that would not be the case here.
    take down oars are an option too.

    but you are absolutely correct, a good way to move to weather would be the safest , wisest decision.
    steve did plan for a motor, but the issue of redundancy is important.
    very good points.

    Steve and i have been chatting about SOF hulls that will swivel and fold up onto a solidly and lightly built frame, so they could be swung up, and out of the way, so that the frame would sit directly on the beach to avoid point loading the sof hulls on the uneven rocky beaches.
    with a house on the boat as a cat would offer, he has the option of sleeping on the craft at anchor, or wheeling it up the beach to sleep in his SOF house on the platform.

    an issue i did not mention earlier on the thread- especially on the beaches in the summer is, bears, lots of bears.
    every inlet has a creek at its head- and salmon are in the creeks in the summer, and then there are bears.
    for the most part, bears will not try to eat you if there is food around, but big boars can get territorial when there is fish about.

    there will be times, on nice beaches, where i bet he will choose to stay on the beach- but the option of sleeping in a rainproof and bug proof shelter aboard would be good for ones health;)
     
  13. Clarkey
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Clarkey Senior Member

    A boat that has fascinated me for a while is the 'Pattino ai remi' - a small rowing cat used for lifeguarding around the Italian coast. One of the attractive aspects for me is that they can be rowed from a sitting or standing position (or both at the same time!). They tend to be built quite heavily (80-90kg) since they lead a hard life in the shorebreak but I think that could be reduced significantly, particularly if SOF was used. They could provide a stable platform on which to pitch a tent and mounting an outboard is a doddle. Also, easy boarding from the water is pretty much the reason they exist.

    One other thing I am interested to explore is the use of one or two small kayak-type sail rigs, possibly to allow row-sailing to windward.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  14. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member


  15. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

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