SOF Row Sail Motor Micro Cruiser???

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Steveca4, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. Steveca4
    Joined: May 2018
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    Yes, now that is very interesting, in fact I have a drawing I sketched out last winter that is very similar but the deck is far more innovative. In my design I would make the pontoons out of foam laminated to to thin plywood. The plywood would be vertical giving great strength to the pontoon. If I put a foam stuffed deck platform like the one above on it with a skin on frame shelter I should be able to keep the weight way down. Also a 2x6 or 2x6 could form the transom for a small motor at the back of the deck. Of course the pontoons could also be made in SOF. I'm not sure which, SOF or laminated Foam pontoons would be lightest and strongest. For me that would be the deciding factor.
     
  2. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    I like the idea of lining sleeping area with rigid foam to keep the damp cold out. Then a twin memory foam topper for a mattress and voila, comfy, warm and dry sleeping quarters. Perfect.
     
  3. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    So now with the introduction of cat designs it begs the question I've long wondered. For the watercraft that will best suit my specific purposes, (fishing, snorkeling, foraging, camping coast lines, light strong, cartopper, on board shelter, beachable), would a SOF monohull, hull and outrigger or a cat /tri cat be the best boat. A practical issue would be getting it on and off my truck when doing a lot of traveling. Another would be easy to sail for a complete novice sailer. I could see making two 16' long SOF pontoons with a light strong, permanently attached deck or a large kayak or canoe with a square stern and an outrigger or ama.
     
  4. wayne nicol
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    Location: Queen Charlotte islands, B.C.

    wayne nicol Senior Member

    this was the very first thing that came to mind- when i read your original post.
    living up here- my biggest design factor i would be considering... is the bears!
    in the summer the bears spend alot of time on the beaches- and there are a lot of bears here.
    i would want something that could withstand a bit of bear"investigation" in my absence.
    you could keep them away when you were around- but if you went for a hike or were sleeping at night.

    thats why i really like the PVC tubes of the Rebel cat, and they would withstand the beaches- no sandy beaches here- 99% of the beaches are solid rock, boulders and rock gravel. and at low tide they are festooned with barnacles( not only little ships barnacles, some pretty big ones too.) but muscle beds etc.
    never mind the abrasion and cutting ability of them, but if you are forced to stay in a specific spot- due to time and tide, i worry that some of those spots would really point load on any other hull, and create problems for them- kinda hard to find nice smooth beaches here- that will allow you craft to sit nice and flat.
    another thing, is the beaches are steep- so you may always be sleeping on a steep slope.

    for me, my best option would be an anchor setup and sleep on the water- solves most of the bear issue- is kinder on your boat, and will always sleep flat- and i sleep best at anchor- its like sleeping in a rocking cradle for me !! :)

    i can help with advice on what anchors work best up here- based on experience- no theories or u tube anchor tests.
    we camp out here in our boat in the winters and i have been in 50 - 60kn winds- your anchoring system better be good!!!- but thats winter

    i will send you a private message, via this forum, with my email and phone number- and we can chat and write.

    good luck- this sounds like an awesome adventure!!
     
  5. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    The extraordinary capacity of these boats is demonstrated in the rather wonderful 1922 documentary, 'Nanook of the North,' at about 4 minutes 30 in. I think I count 3 adults, 2 children and a dog. I'm not sure the cabin counts as 'comfortable' though, particularly if Nanook has been on the beans....

     
  6. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    This thread investigates an area fascinating to me too, Steve. I think a great deal about trying to achieve a sweet spot camping cruiser which would sleep 2 in a little cabin, sail and paddle (not bothered for an outboard really), but be light enough to carry up the beach. I'm a little anxious sleeping at anchor in a small boat, but I guess if you have bears to worry about on the beach, then anchoring is probably the favourable option!

    If you don't know them, the Geodesic Aerolite SOF boats are particularly beautiful, perhaps a little lighter than other SOF materials, and supposed to be tough; though like Wayne, I worry about robustness to wear and puncture, particularly when beaching.

    Geodesic AiroLITE Boats - ultra lightweight SOF canoes and boats; plans, projects and tutorials http://gaboats.com

    If catamarans are in the frame, then lets muddy the water a little further with trimarans. My current boat is a little open camping cruising tri, carrying 2 people plus camping gear readily, and at about 90 kgs fully assembled and rigged, is easy enough to carry up and down the beach. I'd love to be able to do this, but have a little cabin as well.

    Its evolved from the sailing canoe scene here in the uk, and these boats might be worth a look for ideas. Most users camp on shore (no bears!) but some do sleep in the boats with a tent over. The lee board arrangement makes this easy.

    Here's a video of Solway Dory's (the leading light of canoe sailing in the UK) latest iteration, a little smaller than mine, and fully moulded glassfibre, rather than ply. Not suggesting this is ideal for what you want, but some interesting ideas and great simplicity. I especially like the keyway assembly of the amas and beams And full assembly and rigging in 11 minutes ain't bad.

     
  7. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    I would never have thought about the Bear part, here Moose and Bear are not too worrisome. Luckily I think I'd probably rather sleep on the water too for the same reasons, even it I were doing it here on the edge of the Canadian Shield, no great beaches usually. Plus sleeping on water eliminates the tugging and pulling ashore. Still you are likely right that a tougher pontoon is needed. It will require more thought about the sleeping, out of the weather and cooking compartment.

    However to get a shelter tough enough to deter bears I may need to build a center part of the boat that is more secure and use outriggers or small pontoons for stability more like the Angus Row Sail boat. I'm currently building a Gorfnik designed by an owner of a Paradox. A narrower, longer version of the Gorfnik assisted with a couple some outrigger pontoons, the central body could make a nice living compartment and go inside my truck bed, the pontoons on the roof. SO the trick would be making the main / center body tough and light.
     
  8. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    I have also wondered about combining ply/glass for the lower part of the hull for robustness, with SOF for the uppers for lightness...
     
  9. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member


    Hi Tiny
    Thanks for partisipating and yes it looks like cats and tri's are now being considered too. Wayne's comments have me thinking about a more robust sleeping living compartment as the main central part of this watercraft and then either ama or outriggers. I've never sailed but want to learn so the craft should be sailable. I'll never want to be a speed sailor, just get from camping cove to cove when I want to move on, traveling with free wind keeps the cost and volume of fuel needed low too. So a simple one piece sail perhaps?
     
  10. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    Or perhaps stitch and glue with 5 mm plywood covered with 3 0z glass, used to make the main hull, deck area and sleeping/camping compartment. Add ama or outriggers of foam for stability. Something I've heard but can't confirm is the difficulty getting out from shore due to tide and big waves near shore. Wayne is that a concern also up your way?
     
  11. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    Tiny, I just watched that part of the film, that was incredible, reminded me of the 60,s and seeing how meany we could get into a VW Bug. Truly those kayaks must have been huge inside. It totally makes sense that they would travel as a family in one watercraft. I suspect they could have lashed goods on the deck too. The weight would have improve stability too. Again that rounded non square shape proves much better: white man thinks in squares and rectangles and everything in nature is the opposite. Now something like that with outriggers for a novice white man might be the ticket. That old boat looks a lot like the Angus Row Sail Cruiser. This exploring potential options is such fun. Interesting too how we look back in time to find better solutions to current challenges eh!
     
  12. Steveca4
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    Steveca4 Junior Member

    Tiny, do you have a sketch of your concept to combine ply and SOF?
     
  13. wayne nicol
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Queen Charlotte islands, B.C.

    wayne nicol Senior Member

    so the geography here is all seismically induced.
    we have steep mountains coming straight up out of the water( obviously not everywhere- but just a generalization), this is dramatic and beautiful, but leads to lots of narrow channels with strong fast currents- we can easily get 5 to 6kn currents here.
    we have a high tidal range of 24' but the tides are bigger in winter than in summer- that also leads to the higher current speeds.
    i dont want you folks thinking this is a bear plague here- but just that they are around- and in the summers are up at the head of these inlets foraging on the grass, seaweed, shellfish and salmon in the creeks- and thats usually where the best and prettiest anchorages are.
    i dont think you would need a bullet proof shelter, i would build something that is just nice and weatherproof.
    dont be intimidated by the anchoring system- its really easy to set up, and the best system, i would rather be at anchor , and be able to slip away when i wanted, than being stuck on a rough beach with 15 vertical feet to drag your boat to the water- over 200feet of distance.- you will then be a slave to the tides, at anchor you are a free soul. wind can make some good waves too but that would not be my biggest concern.

    i can explain, or show you when you get here :) how to set up a very quick and easily retrievable lunch anchor system. you can come into the beach- unpack your lunch and goodies, push your boat off, anchor it, and when you want your boat back easy to retrieve. this is not the "washing line " system that takes quite a bit of setting up but that is also a viable option, and i can help with that too.


    an extremely simple, unstayed mast, with a balanced lug or sprit sail will give you the best performance for the lowest cost and hassle. a balanced lug will have the lowest sheet pressure- and you wont be needing all kinds of extra hardware to make it work. a cheap wooden mast and spars, a tyvec sail and some decent rope. and a sheet- done!!
    i would spend the money on your halyard and downhaul being nice non stretch rope, and a few nice cleats.
    you could get a nice light dacron sail if you had the spare cash- it would be affordable- but if i was tight on funds , then a nicely shaped and constructed tyvec house wrap sail would do the job well.

    i honestly think your choice of craft is going to be a personal one, wide stable mono-hull, or a multihull of your choice.
    i love beautiful wooden boats, and too have built some SOF kayaks- and plan to now build a whitehall SOF, however if i were going on an expedition, i would want toughness and durabilty, and ease of repair over what might be the most beautiful- not saying, you are going to get smashed up and broken, but if i needed a repair, i like the idea of some scrap pvc and some plumbing glue- cold and wind and rain are not going to make the repair difficult- like a SOf or fiberglass repair could.

    i think with a PVC cat with wooden frame, you could mount a motor easily, build a very neat SOF house, with an aunstayed mast and balanced lug, easily set up a good rowing station.
    the cat would perform best under the combo of power and sail and oars out of all the hull options.
    and it would be super easy to dismantle- pack down to the water and re assemble if you were high and dry, and even if you dragged it- there would be no significant damage.
    this is just my opinion mind you- your milage will vary :)

    i did send you a PM with my contact info
     
  14. Steveca4
    Joined: May 2018
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    Location: Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canada

    Steveca4 Junior Member

    I got the PM, thank you
    I'm already searching for PVC pipe. It does sound like the most practical, durable and safest approach for a cat used in that area (coastal).
    Also trying to find plans for those volumtuous big kayaks. I might have to build two boats as I like both style a lot.
     

  15. wayne nicol
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: Queen Charlotte islands, B.C.

    wayne nicol Senior Member

    i have all kinds of plans for SOF kayaks.
    also look up Dave Gentry and his SOF boats and plans.

    you might want to search for Baidarka plans- i think thats the spelling :)
     
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